Stock Problems/Issues Discussions related to warranty related issues and repairs, or other problems with the OEM parts and software for MINI Cooper (R50), Cabrio (R52), and Cooper S (R53) MINIs.

5-30?/5-40?

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  #1  
Old 07-11-2005 | 09:50 PM
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SteveRob
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5-30?/5-40?

As an oil novice; I have been doing a little internet research on appropriate oils for the Mini. (BMW Longlife-98 spec.)

Although it seems as many here feel 5-30 wt. is the way to go...my findings indicate that the BMW "Longlife" oil specs. call for ACEA A3.
I think this is a European high shear/high temp. spec.

For the several 100% synthetic oils that I have found with BMW Longlife/ACEA A3 specs; they all seem to be
5-40 wt.

Most members here have stated their Mini manuals call for 5-30 wt.

It is interesting that my Bentley manual for the 2002-2004 Mini calls for 15-40 wt. ACEA A3!

Is it possible that the "Mini Synthetic Oil" sold at Mini/BMW dealerships is the only 5-30 wt. 100% synthetic available that meets the BMW Longlife-98 and ACEA A3 spec.?

I am also confused about which API grade best matches ACEA A3.
(maybe SL for 5-30, and SJ for 5-40?)

The more I learn...the less I know.

Please let the oil experts speak....
 
  #2  
Old 07-15-2005 | 11:48 AM
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05 Service and Warranty booklet

I was glad to find in my 2005 Mini Service and Warranty booklet that; BMW gives their approval for a 5W-40 pure synthetic oil!

So I will probably change oil at 5K or 6K with a 100% synthetic BMW-LL rated 5-40wt.

My Mini S oil at 4.5K is about in the middle of the dipstick "range" and starting to get quite dark. I know Mini says 10K is ok but....I just can't stand to see such a dark color. Fresh oil and a filter will make me feel better.

My oil choices will be either be 100% synthetic; Valvoline 5-40wt, or Castrol Syntec 5-40wt. Both of these oils are ACEA A3 and BMW LL rated. The Valvoline is API SJ, while the Castrol is API SL/SJ. Both are pretty easy to find in my area.

The 5-30wt Mini HP LL Synthetic of course would be great... but I am an hour away from my dealer.

The Amsoil pure synthetic 5-40wt "Europe" variety may be the best...it has a very high anti-wear (HTHS) property. It is also A3, BMW-LL, and Porsche rated. I would have to locate a local dealer to obtain their products.

Motul 8100 X-cess pure synthetic 5-40wt also seems to be an outstanding oil. It is ACEA A3 & B4, BMW-LL, Porsche, and MB 229.3 rated. It also has a high HTHS anti-wear value.

Motul "Specific" MB 229.5 pure synthetic 5-30wt may be as good as the Mini HP Long Life 5-30wt.(but I don't have the Mini oil spec. data for comparsion) Motul "Specific" LL-01 pure synthetic 5-30wt may be very similar to Mini HP Long Life oil. I could not get the specs. for the Motul LL-01 5-30wt because that part of their website was "underconstruction". I would have to locate a dealer to obtain any of the Motul products.

The only Mobil 1 oil that was ACEA A3 and BMW-LL rated was their pure synthetic 0-40wt. I do like Mobil 1 products, and only use their 10-30wt in my 1999 LS1 Firebird. The 2005 Mini Service and Warranty booklet does state that Mobil 1 (5-30wt) is ok to use, but the Mobil product does not seem to rate the BMW-98 LL label? The Mini booklet also states that
Mobil 1 (5-40wt) is acceptable, but I could not find any Mobil 1
(5-40wt) product on the Mobil website...

I also like Redline products...but for some reason they don't list the manufactures approvals on their website.

That is all I know for now.

I am still very curious about what specs. are on the Mini High Performance LL Synthetic (5-30wt) oil bottle label. Please reply if you know what those specs. are.

Steve (still just an interested oil novice..)
 
  #3  
Old 07-15-2005 | 03:38 PM
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tradiuz
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I'm a big fan of Royal Purple products. Especially since I'm a Texan and they are manufactured and bottled here in TX!
 
  #4  
Old 07-15-2005 | 08:54 PM
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thanks Tradiuz

Tradiuz;

I would love to buy an oil that was made in Texas, and keep my $ in the USA!

I know Royal Purple has an excellent reputation from the reviews that I have seen in automotive magazines.

When I went to the Royal Purple website; all I could find were API ratings. I had hoped to find some ACEA ratings.

There was a limited review of test data on the site, but no information was provided showing that Royal Purple has met specific automotive manufactures specs. (such as "BMW-98 Long Life")

If anyone has more details on Royal Purple specs., please let me know.

Steve

I was pleased to see that you also like Zanio auto-care products.:smile:
 
  #5  
Old 07-15-2005 | 09:04 PM
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Wow!

I didn't even know that the whole alphabet was used to rate oils. I figure if it's good enough for race cars, it's OK for the Mini. I use Red Line oil for the Mini (found a place that sells it for about the cost of Royal Purple) and Royal Purple or Mobil 1 for my MDX. My mustang motor gets Red Line as well.

Matt

ps, don't worry about the color going dark. If you change based just on no longer having clear, yellow (or purple) oil, you're gonna spend a lot of money that you don't have to. If you do some searches on the web on oil longevity tests, you can find that some of the oils do quite well 8k-10k miles in terms of viscosity and additive content. Motors leak a little combustion products around the rings. That's where the discoloration comes from.
 
  #6  
Old 07-16-2005 | 08:21 PM
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thanks DrObnxs

I agree you can't go wrong with Redline or Mobil 1.

I hope that all those letters and numbers are a result of careful lab work and testing. I guess the question is; if the difference in ratings will reflect a significant wear and performance behavior in "real world" conditions.

In other cars...I never had "dark" oil for very long, because it was always changed out about 3000 mi. I am glad to hear that dark oil is not something to worry about.

Thanks again;

Steve
 
  #7  
Old 07-17-2005 | 12:46 AM
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Ummm...

I know that the first number (5w, 10w) indicates the viscosity at low temp.
And the second number (30, 40) indicates the viscosity at high temp.

But, what does a lower number mean? A higher number mean?
 
  #8  
Old 07-19-2005 | 10:08 AM
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I will try...

Not sure exactly what you are asking....but I will try.

I am no expert but..a general rule is to use the lowest viscosity possible which will provide the proper separation between metal parts. Anything more than the minimum will increase power loss due to friction and will reduce the pumpability of the oil at all temperatures. ( from Redline website)

I guess the vehicle manual is where you find out which viscosity is appropriate for the necessary metal to metal separation.

Ambient temperatures can also influence which oil viscosities to use.
(usually under extreme heat or cold)

As I understand it; too high of a viscosity might give a protective film at high temperatures...but it might also cause the motor to work harder and create higher oil temperatures than are desired.

This is the best that I can do....if I did not understand your question; please try again. I am sure that someone with more knowledge than me will soon reply.

Steve
 
  #9  
Old 07-19-2005 | 10:14 AM
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JCW oil

Sticker supplied with JCW install recommends Castrol Synthetic in 5W-30.
 
  #10  
Old 07-19-2005 | 12:43 PM
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mine says Mini Synthetic 5/30

Hounddog;

I have a similar sticker on my 2005 MCSa (March build). It states "Mini Synthetic Motor Oil 5/30".

My question has been; If Mini wants us to use Castrol Synthetic 5/30 (I found that in my service booklet), why is it that the Castrol Synthetic 5/30 is not rated BMW-98 LL or BMW-01 LL?

I still don't know what is on the label of Mini High Performance Synthetic 5/30.....

Is is possible that the European 5/30 Synthetic Castrol has a different formula that the USA version?

Steve
 
  #11  
Old 07-19-2005 | 12:49 PM
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I think Castrol has made "some contribution" to the Mini's R&D testing facility. Therefore, it was singled out as the brand to go. Just my $.02.
 
  #12  
Old 07-20-2005 | 12:57 AM
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Don't know about any "contribution" that Castrol may or may not have made to BMW, but here is something to consider: MINI dealers are using a variant of the Castrol full synthetic oil that if memory serves has received the BMW LL rating. The one thing that I have been told to observe religiously is to not mix synthetic motor oils. Since the 2005 MCSa that I have is covered by the MINI factory service plan, any oil changes that I do between the factory changes should be made with the MINI/BMW-approved Castrol full synthetic that at present is only available from the MINI dealers. Alternatively, I could bail on the factory service plan and possibly complicate my warranty coverage. Given the two alternatives, I think I will stick to using the MINI/BMW-approved Castrol full synthetic that seems to be only available at MINI dealers. Maybe this is the time to explore a group buy?
 
  #13  
Old 07-20-2005 | 09:17 AM
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Mobil 1 and now Valvoline..

Caminifan;

I am sure Mini High Performance Synthetic Oil 5W-30 must be BMW-LL
(but I still don't have a bottle to prove it ) If is was easy to get; I would also use Mini HP Synthetic 5W-30.

If you check your 2005 "Service & Warranty" booklet; it does say (pg 4) that Mobil 1 5W-30 is approved.

During the past few days, I called Mini and found that Valvoline pure synthetic is now also on the approved "list".

My problem with Mobil 1 5W-30 and Valvoline 5W-30 is that they do not have "BMW-LL" on the label.

Pg 4 in the service book also states that Mobil 1 5W-40 is approved....but
I don't think Mobil 1 makes a 5W-40??

Valvoline does make a pure synthetic 5W-40, and it is BMW-LL!

So for "easy to get" oils for the Mini; it is Valvoline pure synthetic 5W-40 for me at this time...

A "local" group buy from a dealership for Mini HP Oil seems like a good idea.

Is anyone from the Towson (Md.) Mini Club interested?

Steve
 
  #14  
Old 07-20-2005 | 11:52 AM
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DR61
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Originally Posted by SteveRob
Caminifan;

My problem with Mobil 1 5W-30 and Valvoline 5W-30 is that they do not have "BMW-LL" on the label.

Pg 4 in the service book also states that Mobil 1 5W-40 is approved....but
I don't think Mobil 1 makes a 5W-40??

Steve
Mobil 1 is available as a 0W-40, and in my opinion that is the grade referred to as 5W-40 in the service book (probably a misprint). This 0W-40 is used as factory fill in all new Porsche models. I plan to use it as I have a supply for our Boxster.

Dave
 
  #15  
Old 07-20-2005 | 12:34 PM
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Mini USA; are you watching...?

Dave;

I think you are right about the misprint.

I just don't know if it was a misprint about " Mobil 1 (5W-40)" and they meant; "Mobil 1 (0W-40)" or..... if the 5W-40 part is ok, and the mistake was with the "Mobil 1" brand for the 5W-40.

You make a good point....now I am not sure if Mini thinks that a 5W-40 is ok.

It would be interesting to know the truth...maybe the Mini folks are reading this...and will set us straight.

The Mobil 1 (0W-40) oil must be a great oil because it meets so many specs.

Do you think there is any problem in using a synthetic 0W series when the outside temps are above 100 degF?

What are the limitations in using synthetic 0W series oils?

Steve
 
  #16  
Old 07-20-2005 | 01:04 PM
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In my opinion there is not much difference in both low temp. and high temp. protection between 0w or 5w on low side and 30 or 40 on the high side for SYNTHETIC oils. My Porsche manual recommends 0w-40 for ALL temperatures.

From Mobil web site:
===========================
Mobil 1 0W-40 meets key industry and car builder specifications for:

  • Mercedes MB 229.5
  • BMW Longlife 01
  • Porsche Approval List 2002
  • VW 502.00/505.00/503.01
  • GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline)
  • GM-LL-B-025 (diesel)
  • ACEA A3, B3/B4
  • API SM/CF
Exceeding industry standards and the major leading builder requirements is the cornerstone of the performance reserve that lets Mobil 1 0W-40 keep performing well after conventional oils cannot. Mobil 1 0W-40 provides the widest range of protection -- providing the extreme cold start protection of an 0W grade and the high temperature protection of an SAE 40 grade.

=======
I notice that now Mobil One does has a 5W-40 for 'Truck and SUV' use. It is not BMW LL-01 rated, so I still think the 0w-40 is the one BMW means in the MINI service book.
 
  #17  
Old 07-20-2005 | 07:51 PM
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for all temperatures...good news

Your misprint theory may be correct!

I have known that the 0W-40 Mobil 1 is an outstanding oil.

I hope others will appreciate the specs. that you cited.

It is good to know that Porsche feels that the 0W-40 is fine to use all year.

Thanks for the facts.

Steve
 
  #18  
Old 09-03-2005 | 10:51 AM
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5w-50?

but what about mobil 1 5w-50???
 
  #19  
Old 09-03-2005 | 05:01 PM
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What is the difference between Mobil 1 and Mobil 1 Extended Performance? They post a service life for M1EP, but not for the regular M1. Is the regular M1 good enough for the long MINI service intervals, or are people changing more often? I thought M1 was supposed to be changed at 7,500, but there is nothing on Mobil's site about the life.

There seems to be a lot of disagreement about whether MINI is selling plain vanilla castrol syntec, or whether it is a longer-lasting specially-formulated version of Syntec. If it's regular castrol syntec, I might stick with it for my first 1,500 mile oil change.
 
  #20  
Old 09-06-2005 | 01:07 PM
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Oil Oil Oil
If you have the time, check out http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
Read the Used Oil Analysis in their forums too.
 
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