List of BMWs my old man, brother and I have owned over the last 12 years:
535is
540i
325ix
X5 4.4
X5 3.0
740iL
330ci
328is convertible
M Roadster
Mini Cooper S


BMW products we will buy in the future....
(sound of crickets chirping)

 

The sad truth is that as you say you have been a loyal customer and may never buy another BMW product someone somewhere is saying, "I will never buy another ___________(fill in the blank). I'm going to buy a BMW next!" And someone else is saying, "I'll buy a Chevy next time, I've had it with Fords."

Earl

 

This thread has been very enlightening to say the least! My MCS is only 4 months old w/~5k miles on it. I was thinking of doing a few mods (swaybar, CAI) and using the car for autox this upcoming season. This is my first car purchased new and I must admit I was a bit leery of mods/autoxing a nearly new car precisely because of the warranty issue.

Prior to buying the MCS, I used my trusty old BMW 535is for autox/track duty for the last seven years. It now has over 270k miles on it and I was thinking of retiring it in favor of the MCS - although I couldn't bring myself to sell it because of how much fun it still is to drive. Now I'm thinking I may go ahead with putting some more money into the old E28 and continuing its use as my autox/track car. The car was purchased used (outright) so there is no money owed on it. Even if I were to wreck the car (hopefully never!), I wouldn't be out much money at all as the car's value is so low (I dropped collision coverage on it a few years ago for just that reason).

This way I can have the best of both worlds - my MCS for a fun street car and my 535is as a weekend autox/track car that I don't have to worry about.

 

Isn't it interesting that MINIUSA PAYS for top 3 finishes in SCCA national and regional events?!? Both in full blown race series like SCCA's SSC road racing classes (where the cars are highly modified for racing and wouldn't be warranted) AND in SCCA Solo II (autocross).

So, for those that autocross at the national and regional level with the SCCA in their daily drivers and get paid by MINIUSA for top 3 finishes, I guess their warranty would be invalidated?

Also, I find it interesting that the MINIUSA site encourages people to participate in motorsports - yet they reserve the right to void your warranty if you do so...

Ridiculous...

 

Skiploader, I commend you on your efforts and for sharing them with us all! It has truly been an enlightening read. I have learned a couple things from this.
1. Be prepared to fix my car at my own expense if I mod it.
2. Put a little piece of electrical tape over the VIN number and remove license plate if I ever track the car.
3. Even through some rough times, you still enjoy the car which speaks loads for your and your cars charcter.

 

Yes that is exactly correct.

Also keep in mind that mods will only void the warranty in realation to things affected by the mod.

The track is the biggest danger. Voids everything.

 

What you say is true of nearly any litigation issue when you are suing a large company with deep pockets and huge resources.

I would think MINI and BMW are not going to start voiding warranties needlessly. There is a point at which a company can develop a bad reputation with consumers.

And also keep in mind that if a company like BMW were to start abusing its warranties by unilaterally voiding warranties for aftermarket parts, the FTC or Attorney general or the State governments can come down on them as well.

 

I see that you guys had some discussion about financing and collection. I don't know where this idea came from but as far as I know or can tell the finance contract does not address mods or track day. It does require insurance and I suppose one could make the argument that if you take your car to the track and your insurance does not cover that, then you are in technical default on your finance contract. But that would be a heck of a stretch. Finance comapies tend to not make waves until things go bad. Like not making payments.

Not that it really matters, but I agree that in general collection of a $20,000 judgment against the average Joe is not easy. Here in Illinois a garnishment is for 15% of wages. For someone making the median income of about $40K, with ineterest court costs and atty fees it would take 4 to 5 years of garnishing to collect $20K. But wage garnishment is just one form of collection. They can also garnish bank accounts and lien real estate and other property. But over all it is quite difficult and the original point that they rely on the collateral is very true. This is why insurance is so important to them.

By the way someone mentioned the IRS. They do not even have to have a judgment and they take way more than 15% of wages in fact more like 80 to 90% goes to the IRS when they levy wages.

 

Sorry for the several posts in a row but I have been gone most of the day and I am catching up.

Last thing I would say is that to put things in perspective, this whole thing is just a matter of knowing what you are getting into. If you are someone who enjoys mods and the track then do it. Just as long as you know that you could be without a warranty.

In my opinion, most of the time, there are very few warranty repairs. Not that I have not had warranty repairs but most of the time when I have had a warranty repair, it has been minor. So if you mod or track the voiding of the warranty is just one additional potential cost of modding or taking your car to the track. And maybe its not really that big of a cost.

For those that do take their cars to the track - is there some kind of insurance for that? I would guess there is.

I think it is sad that Skiploder and his family are dumping BMW for life due to this problem. To me, it is a demonstaration of how hard it is to please people (no offense intended here). But even with many happy years of no probelems and an obvious preference and enjoyment of BMW products, this one problem results in total divorce. And it is a problem over a subject that is clearly defined in the warranty that mods are risky and track is death to warranties.

I would probably be much more upset with the dealer than with BMW. I have to wonder if there is more to the story. Is the dealer a total moron with all the BMW products you and your family have had? I am sure it took the dealer to initially question the warranty work. Why did this dealer give you such a hard time?

 

I guess I don't find it all that ridiculous. MINI also sponsors a drag car - but they wouldn't put a new clutch in it under warranty! (nor do they claim they would)

I guess I see it as intended purpose. Is the warranty there to guarantee the car will be bulletproof no matter what you do to it? Or is it there to make the average buyer feel better (and protect them financially) for normal MTBE failures? There are many MINI modders, but we're still a small percentage of the buyers.

A quote I once heard: "Yeah, it's hard on the equipment, but we don't race to save money."

All that said, any MINI sponsored, warranty jeopardizing events should be clearly noted as such. MINI of Mtn View sponsors (if you can call a $300 fee at a $200 track sponsoring!) 'Big MINI Days' at Thunderhill Raceway. Nowhere in the literature (nor statements by the organizers) does it mention their policy regarding that activity as it relates to the warranty. If they categorically denied warranty coverage to any attendee without notice, that would be weak. FWIW, I did one with a friend in her Cooper, and she has since had warranty work done, so it doesn't appear MINI of Mtn View 'black lists' cars that have been on the track.

I do find the 'the entire warranty is void' line ridiculous - taking a car on the track would have nothing to do with a failed window motor.

 

Which one of the "mods" do you think is giving them some heartburn??? I think it's "good will" when your dealer will look for idle problems with a car with these engine mods (even replacing the throttle body). Did he do all the work (mods)? On the other hand. It's "just crap" when a dealer refuses to even look at a car with some mods just because he thinks there is not enough profit in it for him.

 

Sorry I guess I missed this before.

So it was the rep that started all the problems. What a butt-hole. On the other hand, you would hope the dealer went to bat for this situation. Had I been the dealer, for someone who has been a good customer I would have gone out of my way to make you happy. At least compromise on the cost of the repairs. Even if BMW won't cover it, certainly the dealer could step up and absorb some of the cost or eliminate its markup.

This sounds like a situation where many are at fault.

 

The Dealer is one where just prior to the issue, they had several techs get onto trouble for performing warranty work on cars that had been modded and then having BMW deny them reimbursement.

So yes, they were a little gun shy, but even so, proceded with the repair in good faith believing that they were probably OK with my car.

When they had an issue with correctly diagnosing the problem, they called the regional rep who told them to stop - that if they proceded with any repairs, it would be on their dime - or mine. The Dealer went to bat as far as I believe they could - they were very upfront in telling me they have seen alot, I repeat, alot of wiring harness issues in these cars (enough that their parts department keeps a them in stock......)

Subsequent calls to MiniUSA revealed that my car had been "flagged" somehow. We later learned that none of the mods had been reported until the call to the rep and that the dealer had no knowledge of the car being tracked.

I have heard stories of Subaru, Mitsubishi and now BMW prowling events and writing down VIN numbers. To this date I still do not know whether my car was flagged FIRST for tracking it or modding it.

 

The dealer installed the JCW components. They even fixed an oil catch can hose issue.

To be fair, a warranty issue should be covered by the Manufacturer. I really do not expect the Dealer to cover a warranty issue if the manufacturer will not reimburse him.

To me, that's just as bad as me paying it - BMW should be paying for the repair. It's their known issue.

 

I can see why you got upset. I would be pretty upset too.

I still say the dealer got too hung up on BMW paying for the warranty work and could have done something to help make you happy.

 

We have not had the best of experiences with BMW and have bought from three different dealers.

Both X5s on the list were borderline lemon law cases. And the roadster was voluntarily replaced as a lemon after some bitter confrontations.

The 535is went through two trannies in three years (all under warranty).

The problem is that BMW makes some of the most driver-rewarding cars out there, so it makes it easy to say "well, I'll give them one more chance."

Not anymore. We're done. My father has moved on to Mercedes and Porsches and my brother to the Japanese lines. I just got my wife an XC90.........

 

When I renewed my auto policy recently, it had new clauses in it that specifically said if you raced (autox I guess, or tracked) ... no insurance for you!

 

I would bet the head and cam ... work on the engine internals and its probably over ...

 

I was talking to a neighbor of mine who has an Evo. He tells me he got a letter from Mitsubishi telling him that his warranty has been voided because they know he has been tracking the car.

The funny thing is that he had only been to one event - as a spectator! He figures they had someone at the event writing down VINs - even the ones in the parking lot!

 

I suppose GM doesn't have anyone going to the track and writing down VINs on Buicks.

It seems especially odd for Mitsubishi that they make a car that seems such a natural for the track and then are that vigilant in nailing its customers.

 

Actually, I think the term should be hypocritical...

 

Well, yes, but that is kind of the whole point of Skiploder's experience - he thought that M-M would be a means to compel MINI/BMW to honor a waranty obligation and it turned out that the cost and aggravation of being right was not worth it. By extension, M-M is EFFECTIVELY not a viable recourse for the consumer who thinks that the manufacturer has arbitrarily voided their warranty.

I wonder if a poll of NAM members could be taken to determine how many members who had any sort of non-factory part on their car were threatened with warranty voiding. On my 2005 MCSa, there is a sticker that is applied to the top left corner of the front windshield that warns against putting non-MINI parts on the car and explicitly states that warranty coverage may be denied if non-MINI parts are installed on the car. Depending on how obnoxious the dealer/MINI want to be, even aftermarket wheels could get you in trouble.

Actually, I tend to doubt that MINI/BMW would get hammered at all. The approach that MINI/BMW are taking is quite legal under the wording of M-M. Unless there is some other legal prohibition (separate from M-M) against arbitrary and capricious actions by the manufacturer, I doubt that even if MINI/BMW decided to void the warranty of every car that came in with aftermarket parts, they would get hammered by the FTC or State governments. The theory of the case comes down to: There is a difference of opinion regarding the interpretation of M-M, and no one has yet seen a need to pursue a remedy. (You probably don't need the fingers on one hand to count the number of M-M lawsuits that have been taken to final conclusion (through final decision on apeal).)

 

I was indirectly. Our local dealers are VERY mod friendly. So much so they will get you the parts (within reason) and install. When I asked about warranty it was basically anything they install ... they warrant (meaning the dealer). All dealers may have different policies. One has a deal with MiniMania. When MiniMania couldnt get a part I wanted fast enough, they said just go get it yourself and they would install. However, it was implied that if it wasnt something sold by one of their "partners", and I use that word cautiously, not sure if they are partners, you were on your own.

 

As you note in your post, your dealer is indeed mod friendly. I wonder if they have run up against the MINI/BMW warranty denial machine. All it takes is one iteration where MINI/BMW refuses to pay for a diagnostic procedure or repair and the experience causes the dealer to become hyper conservative.

 

Dunno, but now get this ...

Once a year, in conjunction with MiniMania run a Track School at a local track .... Is this considering "tracking" your car because if so, since you had to bring your car in for inspection, they got EVERYONE's VIN.