do0D, sounds like u got ur ride tricked out NiCE!!



(no facts, jus conjecture) huh, im gonna go w/this is a fact... ('dinan' vs. anythin' else) J/K

 

In my case the Dinan is working better in all around preformance than the larger throttle body. (Butt dyno and track times) and to answer the question no you can't tell the difference between 60mm and 62mm.(but the car can) The aggrevation was not worth it to me.

 

.....that bad huh!?!?!

 

Maybe the solution is to only run the larger TB when at the track? On the street, WOT doesn't seem practical.

Hmmm. Maybe a Dinan TB may be the solution for the street with light tracking?

 

Or, go with the non-Dinan TB and install Andy's VGS to smooth out the low end. I hear that works very well for most owners of 60+mm TBs.

 

I'd like to hear from those who have the larger TB (60-62) and have put on Andy's VGS. Has this eliminated the problems being encountered?

I'm ready to take the TB plunge and already have Andy's VGS mod installed. At the moment I'm leaning towards Dinan since it seems as if Dinan owners are happy with the TB. If the larger TB + VGS = no throttle concerns I might go with either the M7 or WebbMotors.

Thanks!

 

Due to stupidity on my part (didn't charge the laptop) I haven't logged the 60mm yet. But the M7 62/3 was too challenging for the ECU. I'm pretty sure the drive by wire programming is the problem. It also has some drift compensation algorithms in it (try pressing the gas pedal very, very slowly at constant speed on the freeway, and feel what happens to the acceleration, or lack thereof!) as well as predictive algorithms (if you start to hammer the throttle, it opens the TB A LOT, since the computer is pretty sure that you want to go real fast real quick. But when putting around town, the model of airflow vs throttle angle is all out of whack, and if you do the math it's worse at small openings. The only real way to fix this is to change the programming in the ECU. But there are over 40 ECU software revs (I read that v43 is out?), and some of them are better at handleing the larger TBs than others. Based on what I've read, if you have an 05, or have upgraded to v39 or 40 for the emissions recall (manditory in CA), you may be screwed. Someone in another thread said v43 helped a lot of drivability issues, but I don't know if anyone with v43 has added a large TB.

Back to the smaller M7 and Dinan. I've driven the 60mm for a few days (despite my stupidity at not data logging) and have found it to be a pleasure to drive. The issues aren't 100% gone, but they seem less intrusive than the RyePhix II was, at least to my taste. The car still goes real lean at small throttle opening, but I didn't ever check if that happened with the stock TB (didn't have it when I put the wide band in). EGTs are down a bit with the 60mm, I'm not hitting over 1000C anymore on my commute into work. But going back to the one ball helped here as well. I think any issues will be more sever with free flow exhausts (and I mean free flow! I have the OBX header, and had a larger CAT, 2.5" pipes, and a resonator and muffler that did their fucntions in name only, would have failed sound at Laguna Seca, and gave the wife and me a headache!) where the issues were terrible with the 62mm unit. Going to the one-ball made it better, and the 60mm was better still. I'll stick with the 60mm. If the 62mm were my only choice, I would have gone back to stock.

But I'm getting good at changing them. My record is about 15min with the stock intake. With the HAI it will take less than 5!

Also, I may put the 63 back on and wiretie the bypass valve, just to see what it's like. should be the best performance out there, but loose some gas milage....

Matt

 

I had the vgs mod when I went to the larger TB then went back to stock no difference I tried the bypass valve adjustments no difference flat spot still present. Also tried MTH no difference.

 

hmmm!! no difference huh...that sux!

 

Barring some new development, it would seem that larger TBs are a racing-only mod. There might be a partial opportunity for benefit on the street from the Dinan TB, but that doesn't seem to be strongly confirmed at this point.

 

Success with larger TBs seems tied to what ECU software or ECU mods are on your car. Some run the street just fine, and others have problems. There is no absolute position that is accurate for all Mini owners.

I would think it's fair to say that this mod should be approached with caution, and an informed decision is much better than buy and bolt and hope for the best.

I haven't heard if the GIAC, UniChip, EvoTech or others can program out the problems, or if this is just a fact of life with certain ECU software revisions. I also haven't tested if this all goes away with the BP Valve wiretied shut (some think this happens when the bypass valve is only part way open).

Too early to call.....

Matt

 

You can count me in with MSFITOY. I had a WMS T/B on my 03 with original software - no updates. Car was SUPER strong, no stumble & awsome throttle response. Then dealer did the emissions update... got V41.1 installed. Car drives like shiznit! Worst part is I told them NOT to touch my ECU!!! Told them it was my car & I didn't care what they said about warranty. NICE

There ouhgt to be a way to COMPELL mini to reinstall my original software... none of this "can't go backwards" B.S.

 

I think this is the most accurate statement on the issue so far:

The problem is that if you look at the web sites of the various vendors that sell the larger TB, you would think that the larger TB is a plug-and-play solution along the path for more hp and ft/lbs. Also, there are more things that are unknown than known about the interplay between a larger TB and the DME code set (which would include the Drive-by-Wire function as well). You touched on many of them in your earlier posts; there may be more that is not known as well.

Personally, I think I will continue to monitor the situation and for the moment, a larger TB has moved to the bottom of my modification priority list.

 

QUESTION:

DOESN'T IT MAKE SENSE TO UPGRADE THE INJECTORS WHEN YOU UPGRADE TO A LARGER T.B. ?

MORE AIR and MORE FUEL

 

In my case the T/B was plug and play. It worked phenomenally for 1.5 years... Until MINI decided to treat me to some new software.

Problems only began to occur with newer cars/software? Irrespective of T/B. I can't recall hearing about 'the stumble' or 'yo-yo' until well into 2003 - after MINI came up with new versions of software.

IMO this is not a throttle body issue - its software. Though I can totally appreciate why anyone would avoid an aftermarket T/B at the mo'.

From looking at my A/F ratios I'd say no... Injectors seem to be fine until open-loop fueling occurs. Part throttle shouldn't be an issue.

 

A larger TB in and of itself does not require a move to larger injectors. What is happening along with the larger TB is more important. If a better flowing head has been added along with a TB and free-flow exhaust (header and cat-back), then you could be looking at the need to go with a set of larger injectors.

 

Randy/ Peter, is anyone looking at a remap of the Unichip to add more fuel at the lean conditions?

Thanks