Hello fellas-- This is my first post to the forums here, as I am planning on getting a MINI Cooper S in the near future and came across this excellent site! Anyways, I am intrigued to hear everyone's opinions about the cars and dealers. One thing that keeps popping up is "BMW Arrogance".

I am curious to know how many of you have actually dealt 1st hand with BMW people and come to the conclusion that BMW is full of arrogant people...

I am an employee in the parts dept. of a BMW Dealership in the SE USA, and I handle all ofthe parts side of warranty. You wouldn't believe how much BMW gives away in the form of parts and service under warranty to satisfy owners. My dealership's Customer Satisfaction Index is almost 97%...

Is anyone basing their opinion on what they know or what the BMW stereotype is?

Honestly, attitudes are probably the opposite of the BMW stereotype. The BMW people bend over backwards to help "arrogant" customers, who want everything free, or at least ridiculously cheap, in spite of the fact that they own $40K plus cars. I'm not saying BMW has the right to screw people, it is just that many customers don't realize the technological edge that BMW is tryin to maintain. MINIs possess a lot of this technology, so some similarities occur.

Feel proud to be a new MINI Pioneer! I know I can't wait until I am!

Cheers ladies and gents--
p0p0 :smile:

 

Hello p0p0k0pf,

Looks like I get the honor of being the first to welcome you to MCO.

But I must say I detect some arrogance in the wording of your posting.

You say "You wouldn't believe how much BMW gives away in the form of parts and service under warranty to satisfy owners." Well, when BMW performs service or provides parts under warranty conditions, they are not being "given away." They are things to which the consumer is entitled.

No car buyer WANTS to return to the dealer for warranty work. And it seems BMW, more that most msnufactures, is often reluctant to put wrongs right. Perhaps this is due to the higher that normal rate of defects in its products. BMW has an especially bad reputation for defects in new models. Pity the poor unlucky consumer not the giant corporation.

 

Welocome POP,

You need to send some of that customer satisfaction to the South Florida service department. Everything down here is a battle with the one I am dealing with. Thanks to a MINIUSA Rep for getting things resolved before I lost it and really got mad.

 

Welcome p0p0k0pf!

Great to see another BMW insider online here. This is a great community and I hope to see more of you here.

Check your private messages. You;ve got mail

 

I'm hoping that many of the issues that new MINI owners have experienced will be seen as the result of the steep learning curve associated with a brand new line of vehicles. The act of setting up a dealership, getting a brand-new vehicle to market, and dealing with it's teething problems can make for stress on employees.

I would, however, encourage the New MINI staff to remember that we (the customers) are putting our trust and "hard-earned" dollars in your pockets - we may get demanding for various reasons (like the fact that my MINI will be my only car and I will not be able to donate large hunks of my time to have it fixed under warranty). If I'm at your dealership and upset, it's not because I'm expecting a free ride, but becuase I'm worried about my primary source of transportation.

 

Welcome p0p0k0pf: You picked quite an introduction topic, there will be much heat over this one

As a current 3-series owner and a future MCS owner, I can speak from experience about my relationships with BMW dealerships. In a BMW dealer I get typecast quite quickly; I'm 23 but look 17, yet make above average income. I don't dress up just to impress anyone at the dealer, it's not relevant. I have gotten quite condecending service and attitude from many employees at BMW, I imagine because of my aesthetic. I understand their training to filter out 'strokes' so I approach them with professionalism, courtesy, and assertiveness. When I was considering a new 3-er, my service from the sales staff at multiple locations was lackluster and my questions were arrogantly misconstrued. These experiences rate "about average" for most of my dealership experiences.
My experiences at the MINI dealership right next door to a BMW dealer, however, was much different. Since I am among the demographic for the car, my service was outstanding. The receptionist was courteous and helpful, as well as my salesman. The experience was enjoyable, non-condecending and non-pressured. The ease of purchase with MINI is worth the price of admission alone, and is among my best automotive buying experiences.
This "technical edge" you apply to BMW is a bit skewed. There are other manufacturers that have simliar, identical, or new features that BMW has not implimented yet. The automotive industry is very technologically driven currently, and it's historical that compaines will continuously "one-up" each other. Your perception of BMW is just from one angle, therefore you cannot speak representative of the whole industry. This may be harsh, but then again, you were asking for perspective. I find your conslusion of warranty work to be erroneous; warranties are in place to fix a defect in manufacturing, therefore it is the dealership who is responsible for the warranty to uphold that promise, regardless of the resources needed to uphold that contract.
BMW has a social cache' unlike any other automotive manufacturer; they are "The Ulimate Driving Machine". When an institution is held to the ultimate standard, expectations are indeed very high.

This is my perspective......and oh yea, I'm another one of those satisfied customers.

 

>>>"As a current 3-series owner and a future MCS owner, I can speak from experience about my relationships with BMW dealerships. In a BMW dealer I get typecast quite quickly; I'm 23 but look 17, yet make above average income. I don't dress up just to impress anyone at the dealer, it's not relevant. I have gotten quite condecending service and attitude from many employees at BMW, I imagine because of my aesthetic."

I, unlike you am 53, have a beard and am a large person. I wouldn't have ever gotten a BMW because I don't think they are worth the money. I have been treated very well at the Mini dealership and also next door at the service department in the BMW "area." I also ride a Harley and usually carry a gun. I don't know if this is a factor.

 

...and welcome pOpOkOpf to MCOL!!!!

 

My dealer has been terrific Baron MINI Mission Kansas(Kansas City Dealer) Now the folks at MINUSA that left me stranded 200 miles from my car and offered no assistance to reunite us They were arrogant A$$es. The BMW Dealer in my home town I am not sure if I want them to get a dealership. They have had a few used MINI's and are trying to rape people for 7000 over MSRP. I told them they should be ashamed of themselves

 

So far the MINI dealer folks here (Seattle) have been OK but I do feel that BMW is arrogant about some things. I was really put off by the fact that they don't and don't intend to support customers by providing technical information. The fact that they don't sell the factory manuals is really stupid. I would be glad to pay them the $200 or so but they won't sell it for some reason. This may work for the BMW marque but they don't seem to understand that americans that buy MINIs are often the same ones that have a classic Mini ('79 Mini Mk4) and Harleys (2002 Fatboy) and do all their own work. I have factory manuals for every car I have ever had. It is even more ridiculous since the manuals are on CD and there is a whole subculture copying them now! You work for them. Please tell me the logic behind their attitudes if it isn't arrogance.

Brad

 

>>I have been treated very well at the Mini dealership and also next door at the service department in the BMW "area." I also ride a Harley and usually carry a gun. I don't know if this is a factor.<<
<<

2minis: The BMW sissies are probley afraid you'll crush their head or run over them with your Harley. I think you just made my point; BMW likes to "Redline" just a bit.

I've got a question for you: Why is a Harley guy driving a MINI???? Seems like such a contradiction in the "machismo" image.

DaveInDenver: this should be moved to "Off-Topic". This isn't about "Beneath Our Bonnet"

_________________
Wisdom is not a function of age, but a function of experience.
*Keeper of the CWFAC list*

 

I showed up at Patrick MINI/BMW (Chicago area) the very first weekend they were open, and they didn't have signs up for MINI yet. I approached the first salesmen I saw, who turned out to be from the BMW side, and asked where the MINI showroom was. He audibly *snorted* pointed the way and turned his back on me. :evil:

The service of the MINI people still won me over, but the experience did leave a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I think this is really backwards of the BMW salespeople, as I will be their target customer in just a few years.

 

I couldn't agree with you more SoopaCoopa: BMW's scare tactics may just come back and bite them, although when you get pissed back, they do help. Just have to show 'em who's got the ***** in the room.


[drifts into dreamstate] It's like the time I wanted to drive the new 350Z to compare the handling with the MCS. The sales-staff at Nissan were visually restraining themselves from laughing when I said I was interested. They said, and I quote, "you can't drive that!!!!" As if they already had my portfolio examined and knew for a fact I couldn't afford it! It was the most absurd presentation of arrogance I have ever experienced; for a stupid 350Z! (later that day, I visited a friend who works at a different Nissan store, and he prompty handed over a set of keys, no questions asked)[snaps back to reality]

So you see, poor salesmanship can occur anywhere!

Cheers,
Ryan

 

The conversation reminds me of what we Victory motorcycle owners went through when the bike was first introduced on the market.....lots of growing pains, recalls, wondering if we chose wisely, sizing up dealerships, but ultimately in love with the product.
We're selling our '99 Vic now that we're purchasing a Mini....And here I find a great group of people very similar to the Victory group. I also think that you pay to play when you're the first group out of the gate with a new exciting product. Everyone is learning together and group loyalty is usually fierce....I love it!
And instead of BMW dealerships, we barked at the Harley shops.
I've only been on this site for one day and it's starting to feel like home.

Jim

 

Who's this "BMW" I keep hearing about?

 

>>Who's this "BMW" I keep hearing about?

Now that's FUNNY!

 

>>Welcome p0p0k0pf: You picked quite an introduction topic, there will be much heat over this one
Ryephile; You say your only 23? Take it from someone who's 40, that was a D@mn good response. (ACS 525 owner)

_________________
Minian (^-^)

 

I understand there are no perfect cars but if you pay TOP BUCKS for a car you are definitely entitled for better quality and better service.

It is an obligation of the dealer to keep spare parts in inventory for warranty or any type of repair (which in my experience BMW doesn´t do). It is an obligation to provide repairs under warranty for free and with the same (or even better) level of service. It´s not the client´s fault when the car is defective.

Put yourself in the client´s shoes: You pay 50K bucks for your BMW, the car is defective and then... you get mistreated at the dealer.

 

I agree with you that I speak with a particular perspective. Not an inaccurate perspective, just an alternative one-- I feel I must elaborate and clarify my point however...

We are in similar circumstances! I am 22 years old and appear about 17. I however, have 3 older BMWs (2 87 325is, 1 1976 2002), and I was a non-warranty customer of my dealership before I worked there. Currently, I am solely responsible for the parts that are used in every warranty repair. I get to see what is warrantied, what is goodwilled (warrantied out of warranty interval), and what is approved/paid for by BMW.

I have heard horror stories about some BMW experiences (truthfully, they rarely occur at my dealership), but I have heard many more stories about happy customers. As human nature dictates, we dwell on the negative and soon come to believe no other circumstance exists.

I wholeheartedly agree that customers with vehicle problems are entitled to unintrusive, no-hassle, no-cost repairs. Reality takes its toll, and the latter is rarely the case. If I were the almighty warranty king (hehe), a customer would never have to return to the dealership after they get the keys to their car while it is warranty-covered. Any defects or problems that occur under warranty should never cost a customer anything. However, reality again steps in.

Similar example- ever have to rely on auto insurance after an accident? Full coverage isn't! It always cost you. The recent diminished value lawsuit affecting State Farm is a clear attempt to change that, however.

My point is warranty, like many things, differs from theory to reality. The best we can do is minimize that gap. It will not, however, completely disappear. There is red tape to cut through, bogus ratings to maintain, and jobs at stake.

No I am not defending inadequate coverage, just explaining why it exists.

Wanna guess which side of the BMW/customer war my dealership is on? Our Goodwill index is at 140%. Our warranty index is at 105%. That means we give away too many repairs, and repair more problems than the customer complains about. Why? The people at my dealership want our customers to be happy. 99% of Goodwill warranty occurs only with factory approval, so that should also tell you what side Munich is on. The "business numbers" aspect is what makes automakers look unhelpful and apathetic.

BMWs indeed are at the technological edge. Feel free to dispute this again, but i get to see the parts that churn, unlike a customer's perspective that relies on feature comparisons, magazine articles, etc. Many facets of the BMW are overfeatured, over designed and underbuilt (b/c no one wants a $100K 3-series). This is not a industry deficiency though. Every technician that comes to work in our shop can't stop mentioning the quality found in BMWs compared to their past jobs at Porsche, Land Rover, GM, etc.

Trust my opinion-- I am about as unbiased as you can get. Want proof? I plan on leaving my job soon b/c of some dissatisfaction issues on my behalf, yet I still speak highly of BMW.

Whoa...my...soapbox... ...collapsing!!! <crash!!!>

I hope to join the ranks of official MINI owners soon! I can tell this is quite a family!

Regards,

p0p0

 

Hmmm. Is a 24 looks like twenty year old allowed to join the 23 looks like 17 club?

I'm off a test drive a MINI this weekend at a different dealership. The first one gave me the "are your parents paying for this" line, and I was peeved. Gave them my Marketing Manager card and took a walk.

A word in p0p0's favor: all the other boys at the office here are BMW or Porshe drivers (they're also fifteen years older and don't have families) and I've got to back p0p0 that despite the hefty pricetags they pay for their cars they can sometimes be VERY abrasive when dealing with their dealerships and life in general. Not to say that you don't have right to pick up a car and expect it to work right the first time (Honda driver speaking here) but there's still a certain level of politeness you can use in demanding what you deserve that the BMW demographic people I know don't feel like they need to use.

 

As an "old man" of 53, this is my 1st experience with BMW service,,yes I know that MINI is not a BMW but hey, you walk up to the SAME counter, and I can tell I have NOT been impressed. Their stonewalling on obvious defects such as the coolant tanks and BROWN coolant are just 1 example. They should recall the tanks, FLUSH the brown coolant out and replace the tanks. end of story.! But no, BMW says that blue turned brown coolant is "fine" meets ours specs ect is crazy..This is the 1st car is 35 years that the coolant turned to "mud color" in 4000 miles!.. Their "no loner" policy is crazy considering they only have 70 dealers,,(and provide loaner to their "BMW" customers is another example of MINI customers being treated as a 2nd class citizens" and my Service manager stated to me " What did you expect, you only bought a 20K car,, !! ,,that ='s arrogance..!! BTW, love my MINI and most of us who R on these boards should get PAID my BMW/MINI as we R their best salespeople...