I don't know how these would void a warranty. (Although always good to be mindfull of what could impact it.)
They just sit on top of the shock towers and do not change any nature of the car.

 

This is one of those things that drive me crazy..having to fix design defects that the manufacturer often ignores. How can BMW not have time-tested load requirements for suspension mounts?? Any opinions on whether or not this will still be an issue with '07 forward?

 

Just my own personal thoughts, to my knowledge no one has encountered a warranty claim denial because of this. That said:

If the strut towers are reinforced and essentially not allowed to give, then if the strut mounts below were to crack (as we know they do), the reinforcement to the strut towers could be viewed as contributing since the front suspension mounting has been modified to be stiffer than originally designed and other suspension components were not designed with that more rigid mounting taken into consideration.

Also, for the person that said, you can just take them off if you have any problems before you take the car in, you might want to remove them now and inspect your strut tower. My strut towers have little wear marks from the plates because the channel cut into the bottom of the plate wasn't chamfered.

And just to be clear, because I have been accussed in the past being anti-SRP, I do use and like the plates.

 

Thanks for the input. As rubyred3 suggested, I thought about just removing them before bringing the car to a dealer should there be a problem, but wondered if there might not be some trace of the plates having been mounted. As Dave noted, that's likely. On another thread addressing the issue, some thought that a dealer or Mini could argue that the car had been modified, and so the warranty is voided.

 

You took the words out of my mouth. It is a ten min job at most.


" tide96 I like to know what rubyred is asking.

On this site and as well as others. It seems the nuts on the reinforcement plates are not showing enough threads on the bolt. Do we need longer bolts.

I was wondering if M7 could thin out the braces just enough to have enough threads showing. I was taught that you need at least two threads showing to make a proper fit. "


This might be the case if the loads were not pushing UP into the nut Unless you spend a lot of time airborn you will not have a problem .

Randy
M7 tuning

 

Randy,

Are you saying that the loads press the nut UP and therefore the threads aren't loaded when the strut tower goes to deform? And therefore people shouldn't worry about the nuts? That seems to be what you're implying in the way you addressed your concern about the nuts or was there some other explanation you were trying to convey?

I disagree with that assessment if that's what you're saying.

When the strut tower goes to deform (wanting to bulge UP in the center of the strut tower because it's being pressed on from below by the shock mount and effectively trying to force the plates off), the ONLY thing restraining the Strut Tower Plate is tension on the studs and the only thing reacting that tension force on the top is those nuts. The threads of those nuts are under more load when the plate is being pressed on from below in a "mushroom worthy event."

To look at it another way: If the nuts were being pressed UP to the point where the threads of the nuts weren't loaded when the strut tower was trying to deform, then you have gapping and that gapping means the plate is not preventing deformation of the strut tower mounts. Clearly that isn't what is happening.

 

Sorry i do not agree with you . The plate are being pressed up actually removing pressure on the nuts themselves not pulling down where thread count would be a issue. I might also add that if there was any real pressure on those mounting points they would have a much better arangment whan three studs pressed into the tower. In their stock state they will snap off at anything much more than 25 ft lbs of torque. I know that several members as well as myself have found out just how weak they were with unfortunate results . I have to say we are confident that the studs are long enough to do the job.

Randy
M7 tuning

 

I disagree

You seem to be saying

• The nuts only serve to hold the strut in position before you get the car on the ground, but once on the ground you could drive around the car without the nuts (i.e. if you don't go airborne, no problem).
• If there is a mushroom worthy event then the force on the nuts is less than the force developed through bolt preload when the nuts are tightened.

Why even bother with the nuts then?

 

Randy,

In the stock state the center of the strut tower deforms upwards. There is very little additional force on the nuts because the force from below is absorbed by deformation in the center of the strut tower.

What the strut tower plates do is resist that deformation by clamping a thick piece of metal in place. Now when the strut tower goes to deform the plate is there and the plate is being pressed up. The only thing restraining the plate is additional tension in the studs that must be reacted by additional load in the threads of the nuts.

This is exactly why people are asking about if they need to replace the nuts.

 

They do not need to replace them but if it is for their own piece of mind do so. I had the stock ones on my car for 30 k hard miles with no issues. The camberplates I have on now have their bolts so it is a non issue. If the bolts were in a high stress area they would have been stronger from the factory. Ther have not been one mention of a nut comming off so I really don't see why we keep going over this but thanks for the bump.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

If the nuts are knocked off, the cause is the result of a big hit in which every thing is reduced to junk. Strut tower deformation just may have been reduced. The support rubber bushing will always have to be watched like yer tires. Still dont think the nuts will come off. The studs just pilot the strut. Nuts keep support from falling out when going airborn or jacking up the car. You could throw them away, but they only have one minor job, in assembly, to keep strut where it belongs. 25lb. nut torque. Wont be any slack. If there was, they were loose to begin with. Say previous unrealized damaged strut guide with plate applied. I bet some are supprised when they try to mount M7 and sense that little mushroom has already started. Two flat pieces torqued that tight dont offer any slack. Rambling

 

Good ramble though! You do see the light !

Randy
m7 tuning

 

I fear I have very little mushrooming on my driver side tower. Will this give me problems if I order the M7 SRP and try installing them? If so, what would the solution be to make them fit? Banging down the mushrooming with a rubber mallet?

 

To be honest the local shop here uses the " official " BMW factory service tools , a big hammer and a 2/4 hunk of wood . Its crude but it works.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

I think what you are saying is essentially true. It would be near impossible to prevent 100% of the possible deformation for 100% of the possible situations. I don't think anyone is trying to say that. You can't really protect from the original bad design, unfortunately, but this is definately one case where we can all use every bit of help we can get, and the SRP's and the Strut brace provide a significant amount of help.

 

I have been thinking about the design of the m7 plate. I ordered one today, spoke with a man named Peter. He is very cool and totally chill.

I figured out why the m7 plate would work if it does work. The mushrooming is from repeated impacts that move the metal slightly upwards. The metal is soft and thin, it gives easily to any form. once you begin a bend from perfectly flat, this causes a even further weakness to the center allowing for even smaller impacts to bend the metal upwards. The m7 plate acts as a form for the soft metal, it also reflects energy back down into the tower. aluminum is great for that. use an aluminum baseball bat and see how great it is at bending ever so slightly and throwing energy back. the impact gets dispersed into the larger plate of unyielding metal allowing for the full tower top to receive the impact and not just the center.

A bend occurs when metal goes upward, and the other metal goes downward. you cant bend metal up without a portion going down unless you are thining it out and stretching it. the bolts must stop the metal from going downward on impact, the form of the plate must be stopping the metal from bending. It doesnt actually have anything to do with stopping a force from damaging the tower. It probably just redirects it. I wonder if over time the plates bend or get crushed.

Initially i thought that it was smoke and mirrors. I thought the camber plates would do a better job as they were from underneath. then i realized that this probably wouldnt help for squat. the plates would just be a part of the metal bending equation. They would be nice and sturdy and in their own inertia and solidness, rip up through and possibly cause the same thing to happen.

I might be completely incorrect in my extrapolation. shrugs?

I think a good anology is the 3m stuff that you clear bra your headlights with, the heavier gauge stuff. This supposedly can stop high velocity decent sized stones from cracking your lenses. It does this by flexing and spreading out the energy, then reflecting it before the substrate can be pushed past its breaking point.

well, thats a lot of random thoughts about how the m7 might work if it does. The thing is cheap and easy to install though, so why not I guess.

 

I'd like to install the m7 strut tower brace and plates on a base Cooper, not just the reinforcing plates. m7 lists the brace as only for the S. Is that just a battery box clearance issue?? I see that ProMini sells a low-profile battery box cover for use on the base Cooper to go with their brace. Anyone have that? Would it allow other brace installations, like the m7 or JCW??

 

Not debating the M7, but debating this point. The 3M protection is IN FRONT of the lense thus protecting it from impact (Much like the Camber Plate).

 

I could see that point.

The only issue with the strut tower that mini has is that the inside space is really small. theres not much of a plate to put in there. Optimally, although the car would be all messed up suspension wise, there would be a plat below that fills the space and a plate above and they would be screwed together.

The plates come in a nice cloth pouch too i like them. thanx peter

 

It's probably worth noting that BMW has had strut tower issues in many cars. Just so we don't feel singled out . Anyone here that's shopped for a 2002 or an E30 M3 probably knows what I'm talking about.

The BMW solution on the M roadster in my garage: strut tower reinforcement plates that go underneath, and are shaped to the tower. A picture of one from my car:



Something similar for the MINI would be a nice addition to our preventative measures. Yes it will raise ride height a tiny bit, and yes it'll want longer bolts.

BMW uses some paper gaskets for the interface between strut mount and the tower for some cars. Same sort of thing for rear shock mounts. Picture of some of mine still in the bag (they get replaced whenever I have the front suspension off):



Same sort of thing on the MCS? I've only had the car a week, and have yet to remove the struts (maybe this weekend if the M7 strut brace arrives on Saturday). In any event, a paper gasket of this type, cut by hand, should work dandy at preventing the SRP from scarring paint on the top of the strut tower. On the BMW, I use one under the rear shock mount reinforcement ring for exactly that purpose:

 

Absent a solution from MINI, the closest you will get is a camber plate (for under strut tower re-inforcement). The upside of a camber plate is that you can adjust the camber which will further enhance the handling capability fo the MINI.

 

physics says no to gasket on top. physics says yes to gasket on underneath.

the m7 works by acting as a mold to which the strut tower gets formed into whenever it is jarred. it then reflects the energy directly back. any medium between the two pieces of metal would retard this energy. the pressure and tightness of metal to metal contact is key to the m7 plate working.

who the hell cares if your paint comes off your tower in tiny spots???????

the m7 plate seems to work, no one complains of issues after having it on. dont mess with a mysteriously working product!

 

Agreed.

 

Thank's El_Jefe...

Great discussion....

The idea was to have a produt that would be easy to install (for wide accceptance) and provide a great solution in an inexpensive package.

Adding a camber plate system is great idea, but not really something
the average driver of the MINI needs or want's. The expense of the
camberplates are only part of the equation, as most owners do not have the capabillity of taking the front suspension out, install the camber plates and
re-install the package. You could have the SRP's installed in less time then
it would take order these babies on-line.

peter
team M7
562-608-8123

 

M7 strut brace arrived today, thanks M7!

Both of my strut towers are slightly mushroomed. That will get fixed tonight.

Camber in the front right now is -.8 passenger side, -.9 driver side, car unweighted (measured with my SmartCamber tool). Factory spec is -.5 +/- .41666, weighted. I think I'm fine in that department. I haven't checked total toe yet, nor strung the car. Too many other first-round maintenance things on the list at the moment.

Adjustable camber plates are on my already-too-long wish list.