I agree 100%. And the more you work on your own car, the more you learn about how it works and what the changes affect. Sure, you will make some mistakes while learning, but that's what this forum is for and you can always get help if you get too far over your head. And as your confidence grows, you can attempt more complicated jobs.

Steve

 

The URL posted above is correct. I was quoting from http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf which also does note the 8 year warranty on cars after 1995.

The difference between the URLs is that mine is the fact sheet for aftermarket cats ... I read its entire intention to be that if you want to mess with the CAT for any reason, you, the owner, are subject to a $2500 fine while car dealers subject to $25K fine (and the reason why vendors can sell CATs is they are for off road use only). If you choose to remove your CAT and replace with Miltek or whatever, your still breaking the law and subject to the fines

"... it is a violation of Federal law because it is likely to increase the amount of pollution coming out of the vehicle. Penalties for violations by individuals, service or repair shops or fleet operators are up to $2,500 per violation. (Each improper installation is considered a violation.) New car dealers can be penalized up to $25,000 per violation. Any person who causes a violation could be subject to the same penalty as the installer."

So, for example, if you install an aftermarket CAT, I read this to mean you are liable for a $25K fine (whether you get caught or not is not an issue here).

caminifan ... you got a point. BMW is required by US law to warrant the CAT. The real question is going to be whether or not they can deny coverage based on the aftermarket mods.

You cannot touch ANY of the emissions related parts. OBD codes are mostly for emissions issues. You throw a code, its related to emissions (in most cases). Add a catback, most likely nothing related to emissions ... add a non-oem CAI ....

Examples of parts installed for the primary purpose of controlling
vehicle emissions.Air Injection System
...

Fuel Metering System ...

Proper use and maintenance of the vehicle are your responsibilities. The manufacturer may deny your claim if the evidence shows ...

"* tampering with emission control parts, including removal or
intentional damage; or

* improper maintenance, including failure to follow maintenance
schedules and instructions, or use of replacement parts which
are not equivalent to the originally installed part;"

I read the moment you add a non-OEM CAI your screwed.
Also, I would bet that anything messing with the OEM ECU messes with the A/F ratio from
stock.

Bottom line .... I wouldn't hold my breath. That the price of
doing business

 

Oh, this ought to stir the pot a little...

MDSBRAIN said:
The cat is probably going bad from the car running rich. Yes, the cars are designed from the factory to run a little on the rich side, especially the "S" model nad that is because of the supercharger. I'll be glad to explain why but in the intrest of staying on topic, PM if you're curious.

The purpose of engine mods is quite simple: add more power. To do this, more fuel needs to be added to the cylinders. Being that the 4-cycle gasoline engine is pretty inefficient by design, some of that fuel that is getting dumped into the cylinders does not get burned. It is physically impossible to burn it all. So this unburned fuel then starts to collect in the exhaust system. That unburned fuel collecting in the exhaust system, specifically before the catalytic converter, starts to burn the insides out. The catalytic converter element heats up & starts to break apart & viola! you have an exhaust rattle.

The solution: need a new cat or take the mods off.

The aftermarket cats are so-so, usually they flow too much and mess with the back-pressure of the exhaust. On a small displacement engine back-pressure is critical at low engine speeds as it scavenges the cylinder on the exhaust stroke (exhaust pulses do this) so it is empty for the incoming fuel/air mixture. Use at your own risk, but low speed driveability may be comprimised by doing this. Also, the oxygen sensors may not pick up enough variance between readings (the DME uses these to measure the efficiency of the cat) and keep setting off the Check Engine light.

As to mods: well, there is a reason you put them on, and that is to go faster. Personally, I say take the money to be spent on the showy (and expensive) A/M goodies and put it towards a good drivers school (Skip Barber, Bob Bondurant, etc) and learn to drive a bone stock car extremely well. Then start tweaking. The best driver with a so-so car will beat the so-so driver with the best car any day.

But enough of the soap box preaching...


And Chows4us said:


Oh really? Do you have any information substantiating this claim? How did you obtain this information? I'd like to find one of those said "lifetime" catalytic converters. Truth is, there is no such thing as a lifetime lasting parts. Midas will sell you "lifetime" brakes, but read the small print. EVERY mechanical device has a lifespan, some items more than others. But a catalytic converter heats to about 600 to 800 degrees when fully warmed up (and operate most efficiently when so). Then it cools down, then heats up, then has unburmed fuel igniting itself, and the cycle repeats itself for the life of the car. That's how it works. So the catalytic converter WILL WEAR OUT, usually they last 100k-200k depending upon several factors, not the least of whch are engine tune and driving charcteristics.

And also...
Yes, you are right, see the above description.

And then dwm said:
Sometimes. As with every manufacturecertain items are covered, the catalytic converter is not one of them. If you would like to see details on what is covered and what isn't, ask for a copy of the warranty from MINI USA. They will provide you a written copy.

The federal stuff is a gray area. But for the most part, you are correct. However, given the nature of the mods on the car, they may call a factory rep in to inspect the vehicle (which they have the right to do so) to determine if it will be covered. It'll be a tough sell, especially given the history of the vehicle.

So to answer your question: unless you plan on pulling off ALL of your mods, consider the cat to be a price you pay for going fast because they aren't going to stop burning out so quickly otherwise. Hope this helps!

 

chows4us said:
Yup, pretty much.

 

Hi - I didn't read the whole thread, but responding to the title - my modded MINI runs perfectly!
and......... it's for sale! 2002 electric blue - see the MINIs for sale thread!

 

Hey low,

Couple of quick comments that are both on and off topic I think.

First: Going by the name of the thread, I feel the answer is that depends. If the part is appropriate, installed correctly and doesn't require additional modifications to work properly, then yes the "modded" car should run perfectly. We all know there are exceptions to every rule. But the most popular options for the MCS generally don't have any adverse reactions. Intake system, exhaust, catalyst replacement, S/C pulleys and the like.

Second: The emissions debate will go on for sometime until the EPA mroe clearly defines items in the Federal Clean Air Act. But specific to the catalyst replacement kits we offer as a complete bolt in from head to cat-back do carry the proper aftermarket catalyst warranty against failure, etc. An EPA approved warranty form is included with each one (PT# AMP-EXT-050 fits 2002-06 MCS and MC). It is a multipart form that includes copies for each the installer, retailer, client, and of course the manufacturer. Also, each one has the details as to how long each part must retain the paperwork. These parts are 49 state approved for the replacement of the OEM catalyst and carry EPA approval #'s stamped into each. (They are not currently CARB approved, but we are working on that as well. The catalyst is currently CARB approved for pre-1996 models, but requires additional time and testing for us on newer models. Trust we are working to help our California clients.) The bulk of other products, like intake systems etc, are otherwise "49-state" approved and not a concern with non California residence. Our latest packaging and invoicing reflects items that are not approved for California to help clear confusion. But please feel free to ask us on any product you are considering to see if there are any concerns from an emissions standpoint.

As always let us know if we can help further!

 

I took my car today to a local private shop (Lucky Dog Garage) that works on alot of MINIs. They ran alot of diagnostics via the OBD2 port and poked around.

They found the loose bolts on the undercarraige and they were 2 bolts that held the front suspension to the body. These bolts would of been removed when my engine was replaced in March. So they either backed out or were never fully tightened.

MY CAT IS FINE! All signs show the car is running perfectly, No codes, fuel trim is right and the sensors for the CAT show no issues. Also when we bang on the cat we get no bits moving inside..So the dealer is full of crap!

Also the car is very messy underneath from the oil change. There is alot of oil from removing the oil filter and the car is overfilled with oil.

So, what I have learned is my dealer is full of crap and is looking to make $.
I also swapped my colder Denso IK22 plugs out for standard NGK plugs as my Densos were blackened and covered with carbon.

So alot of my questions were answered and nothing is wrong with the car.

 

Yes, hyperbole ... nothing is forever ... not even the mountains However, the references provided by the EPA site did clearly say that if you could not pass the emission testing and the car was post 1995, then they must warrant it for 8 years (which is to me, a lifetime in car or dog time). Provided you dont mess with the emission parts they list. I believe MDS DID change some of those parts.

In fact, I've never heard of an OEM CAT going bad but that's just one data point.

 

What about the steering wheel issue and the squeaking?

As to the bolts and oil mess

It just totally amazes me that they have any business at all.

 

I saw it today, it was pretty much unacceptable that it was left in that condition. Someone really didn't want to be bothered with anything it seemed.

 

Believe me I have. The BMW E36 3 series, earlier E38 7 Series, Mercedes-Benz W209 CLK series, W163 ML series, W170 SLK series, Volvo XC70, and early S40s among a few others would go bad if you thought bad thoughts about them. The third generation catalytic converters operate so hot that they start to break down. Unfortunately, there hasn't been much in the way of advancing the technology of these yet, except to use ceramics & other exotic metals. Which equal expen$ive. Bummer.

As for the loose bolts and oil mess-Ugh. Not sure what the guys there at tate were doing, but there is no excuse for that. Sorry for your mess but at least it is getting straightened out.

 

Here it is in a nutshell. If you own or plan on owning a modified car just resign yourself to the fact that the dealer is gonna be a pain and try to back out of any warranty related work at the drop of a hat. This has been BMW's plan of attack for many generations. Anyone who has owned bimmers before will have experienced this at one time or another. The warranty isn't worth the paper it is printed on.

What you have to do is find a local shop that you visit regularly for alilgnment work, oil changes, that kind of stuff. Honor them with your business. Send other people you know their way. Then if and when the ish hits the fan they will bend over backwards for you. Sounds like you have found that kind of place. I think the criteria for this type of shop is that the owner anwers the phones, he knows you by name and by your car, and when a buddy is referred to him they can say "my friend with the JB MCS with the Brembos sent me in", and the owner knows who your bud is talking about.

Oh, and to the OP, My heavily modded MCS runs fine. (now having said that, it will have a major problem tomorrow)