As I have posted on other threads, here's the update. Sorry for cross postings.

Sorry for the long over due update, but, with the holidays started, I have been hella busy and, to be honest, this issue just got some sort of closure. At least for the time being.

As of right now, my MINI is at home, but not working. Via phone tag with lots of people, MoD and MINIUSA decided that they would bring the price of repairs down to around $4400. That doesn’t include taxes, or if they find anything else wrong with it. While that’s half of the original cost, which is very nice, that still doesn’t help the fact that I don’t have that kinda cash, so unfortunately, repairs will just have to wait till I do.

Don’t even let me get started on how much that sucks!

And, while $4400 is still kind of pricey, it is the best deal that anyone can offer. I called several transmission specialists in the area, and they all said the same thing – replace it. Because MINI uses what is called a ZF CVT Transmission, and since it is relatively new in the auto market, no one repairs it, everyone replaces it (there has only been one person in California that has repaired his; he did it as a hobby, and it took him a month). MINI is the only company that even imports it to the US. The part itself starts around $5200, with a reman starting at $4600. Salvaged, or used ones are hard to find, and if you can find them, the price still starts at $3200, or $5000 for a fully functioning one. And, because these are salvaged parts, there is no telling when or where they will break, if ever again. And once you add in labor, it’s really not that much a great deal after all.

Since I now have a lot of down time, ya know, the whole no car thing, and I was playing phone tag with tons of people, I did do a little research on the whole MINI CVT tranny issue. What I found was pretty surprising.

From reading tons of threads online on many forums, and consumer reports, and various other sources, I have found that there are many CVT owners that have had tranny problems. At least 45 other MINI owners have had tranny problems that are similar to mine (randomly broke with no warning), and about between 100-200 CVT owners that have had other problems in which their CVT had to be replaced. While that number may seem small, please note that these reported incidents are only within the online MINI community. With 350,000 plus MINI sold, I know that not everyone who is a MINI owner is active or participates at all in the MINI community, so it is reasonable to believe that there are more CVT owners that have problems, but that information is not available to me online. My best gestimate is that about 5% of MINI owners have some sort of tranny failure, but that covers every type of tranny failure, and that number could be grossly out of proportion (I’m not a mathematician by any means, so don’t hold this number against me). It is based on the number of reports I read, compared to members of online forums, worldwide MINI owners, and consideration for an overlap. As to people that have had my type of issue, I don’t know, it could be limited to the 45 I found, but I highly doubt it.

Anyway, the first reported case of a CVT randomly self destructing like mine, was last November. It was an ‘05 CVT with 74,000 plus miles on it. Their dealer quoted them about $7000 for repairs, and after all was said and done, MINIUSA and their dealer picked up the parts cost and charged the owner only $2600 for labor.

Since then, the other reports I have found have covered all model years, and happened just out of the 50,000 mile warranty. Most CVT failures were around 65,000 miles and 80,000 miles with a few in the 100,000 plus category. Also, most of these reported were in the past year, June and July being the worst months, and MINIUSA and their MINI dealers seemed to either pick up parts costs, or like me, cover half the price. The difference in price break is, as I understand it, decided by Regional Service Managers, or Head Service Managers of a particular MINI Dealer.

There are a few CVTs that failed within the warranty period, and MINI replaced them for free, but that happened to a VERY few CVTs. And, those that were replaced within the warranty period, had other tranny issues and some warning signs. There are also reports of MINIs with a tranny problem that have had to have 2 tranny replacements. I do no know exactly how much, if any, MINI footed the bill for, if any.

It is rumored (please note the word RUMORED) that because of the CVT failure problems, MINI is replacing the CVT with a standard automatic transmission unit in the new ‘07s. Now, it is true that MINI is no longer using the ZF CVT Transmissions in the ‘07s, and is using a more standard, widely tested, type of auto transmission, but they have not publicly said why. They also will not release any type of numbers or statistics about the subject to the public. However, most media on the subject does seem to point to the CVT failure rate worldwide as the reason to the switch.

Now, if you are in my position, which I hope you aren’t, then what do you do? I have gotten this question a lot in the last few weeks, so here’s what I recommend:
1. Don’t freak out.

2. Call MINIUSA and see what they can do for you.
Don’t take this as being whiney or trying to get something for free. Just call and ask. The worst they could say is no. I have been talking to MINIUSA and MoD about this all month, and there have been no harsh words, no threats made, and no major agitations (except for the fact that this really sux!!). Anything that was said to me that was negative came from outside parties. MINIUSA is really nice, and they will try to help you.

3. Call other mechanics and utilize all other sources. (Even other MINI Dealers)
I called all transmission specialists in the area, and researched a lot. I found cars that used similar types of transmissions (some Hondas, some Audis, newer Nissans, newer Toyota Hybirds, some Mercedes, and late model Volvos) and called shops that specialize in fixing them. They all told me the same thing, to replace it because no one can fix it, but you may get a better rate or a better deal than having MINI fix it. Unfortunately, that’s not the case for me, but even talking to them helped out a lot.

Once you have done this, then make your decision as to weather or not you want to fix your MINI, or you want to fix in and sell it, sell it as is, whatever.

As to why this happened, the answer is pretty simple, they don’t know. As a matter of fact, if they are even to tell why it happens, then it would be when they pull the old tranny out and take it apart. However, most likely, they will not be able to tell exactly what caused it. This also seems to be a common thread among CVT owners.

I can tell you what didn’t cause it:

My high mileage – even MINI says that a tranny shouldn’t fail at 70K. And, expecting more than 70K on an automatic is not “ridiculous.”

The way I drive – while I do go on “spirited” drives, my car is NOT considered “abused” by MINI. This is also a fact that they are aware of.

My accident a year ago – any damage done would have shown up long ago, and most likely would not have been the problem I have now. MINI and several other mechanics agree on this point.

The fact that my MINI has been on a track – again, something MINI is very aware of, and tells me that one time did not do any damage, or “abuse” my car.

That apparently I’m “obliviously stupid” and “don’t know how to drive” – get real. I’ve probably have driven more miles that most people who said this, and no, MINI even says that’s not the issue.

That I don’t take care of my MINI – not true whatsoever. My MINI is/was well taken care of, the fluids have all been changed correctly, on a regular or scheduled basis, and there were no signs that anything was wrong. MINI does all my service, except for the last oil change and break repair, that was done by qualified mechanics that are experienced with MINIs.



Anyway, that’s the update, and I hope that all this information helps those that are in a similar position. Hopefully I’ll be back on the road soon.

 

What ultimately caused the failure of the CVT? I ask because I have a friend with a 1st year Civic Hybrid w/ CVT and she was told (by her dealer) to sell it or otherwise rid herself of the car, as they too are having issues with their CVTs. In their case it was some kind of belt issue that ultimately resulted in catastrophic failure: Honda will not replace the belt under warranty before it fails, and once it fails, they pull and replace the entire transmission on the owner's nickel.

Just wondering if this is a similar issue or if it was a problem plaguing CVTs in general.

Congrats on reaching some kind of resolution.

 

Cross-posting is a no-no. Please don't do that again.

Threads merged.

 

Perhaps you have discovered my CVT story either here or on the MINI2 forums. Just search on my username and find some posts from last February/March. I replaced my CVT with a factory reman I purchased from a Mini dealer for around $3500 w/2yr warranty and installed it myself - I had to shop around alot to find this price. This was 10k miles ago. My 02 was purchased broken from a person who found herself in your position after 110k miles. In checking my options, I came to many of the same conclusions reported here.

There was another lead that I didn't pursue after I made the decision to purchase a reman. The ZF ecotronic transmission is made in Belguim. There is a company called Centranz Inc that was going to do aftermarket supply of the MINI CVT. I'm not sure how successful this turned out to be, but if it isn't off the ground by now, I suspect they hit some issues. I'd rather not put speculative info about suppliers in the forum, but feel free to PM me after you read through my posts and I will provide the contact info some people interested in pursuing this business.

My previous posts also highlight the challenges of swapping the CVT. It took me around 20 hours working alone to complete on a cold garage floor in Minneapolis in February. I'm willing to answer questions about the process, but you must read through my previous posts first.

Cheers,
David

 

Sounds like the best argument for getting an extended warranty that I can think of. $2K - $3K vs. even $4K to $5K (with the "bereavement" discount from MINI; or more, if MINI doesn't like your attitude) is still a bargain. Based on the potential to fail of the CVT, it would seem that anyone that has a CVT MINI that wants to keep their car beyond the factory warranty period should seriously look at an extended warranty.

 

Just a few words of my experience:

I just traded in my CVT with a final milage of 83.4k, with never having transmission issues. I would say that my MINI was slightly abused, as I constantly brought the engine to redline using manual mode, downshifted constantly, it's been up and down the Dragon (and similar roads) with RPMs at 5,000+ nearly the entire time, driving very 'spriritedly', etc... So my MINI has not had an easy life, but it made it through without a hitch.

Also, at the MINI dealership that I typically deal with, the MAs and SAs say that they had very few CVTs come back with problems outside of the 'bouncing' issue, which was usually cleared up with a software update and/or the driver simply getting used to how the CVT operates. My MA in particular says that his original opinion of the CVT was that it felt like a 'weak' transmission, but he's been pleasantly surprised that, from his opinion anyway, it hasn't proved to be.

Having said the above though, I did purchase an extended warranty just in case of a CVT failure, especially since what was mentioned previously (ie, can't fix, must replace, typically have to go through the MINI supply chain, cost, etc.).

I would be very interested if anyone can come up with 'official' failure rates of the CVT transmision and all of the other transmissions that are in the first generation MINIs. I'm really curious if my CVT experience was the rule, or the exception!

Anyway, just my $0.02!


-Paul!

 

My drive chain snapped, but why, I don't know. They don't know, and probably won't. One of the tranny specialists I talked to was a Honda repair tech. They said that they could repair their CVT, but don't recommend it. They usually just swap them out too.

I don't know much about the Honda failure rate, except that they told me that "know one has quite mastered this new technology, so there are a few reoccuring problems." The people I talked to seemed to think it's the same kind of problem though. But like I said, I don't know for sure.

I did, I am very familiar with your posts. Makes me wish I was a super mechanic too.

But, you did give me the idea to find a reman or a used tranny, although with not much luck or price break. I do have a mechanic that would charge me a flat rate of $1200, if I got the parts, so I was hopeing to go that route.

I have not heard of Centranz Inc. I was told that MINI was the only company that imported the tranny over. I was told of one company that was thinking about it, but I never got an answer as to if they did, or if they are still in business. I think getting a tranny direct would make a some sort of price cut.


Be careful, I have also read stories where the extended warranty didn't cover a transmission failure. I don't know why, or details, just that some people were upset that they paid for the extended warranty, and still had to shell out $5k or $7K.

Make sure you know EXACTLY what your warranty does and does not cover, and the terms for repair.


My MA's and SA's were surprised as well. Most of the people I talked to from MINI seemed to be pretty surprised at what has happened. Some say it's not unheard of, but mine was the first they had seen.

I couldn't find exact numbers either. I really wanted to see if MINI had published these numbers, but as I understand it, the CVT failure rate is one set of data that MINI will not publicly display. I don't know why.

Like I said before, my number of %5 was based on forums I read, compared to people on those, other online reports, and worldwide MINI owners. And, even at that, it was guesitmate.

I did read a reaport that speculates that MINI doesn't want to give out that info because it would prove that they are aware of a problem and force a pricey recall. An avenue that they don't want to go down. But again, that's someone else's report/rumor.

It would be a good piece of info to have. So if anyone knows where to find it, that would be great.

 

Ah. Nothing quite like the feeling of driving a time-bomb. I just hit 60,000 miles a week or two ago. Hopefully, I'll be spared a CVT failure. The car has been very good to me thus far.

 

Has anyone investigated getting a used manual 5 or 6 sp, whichever will fit and paying a private shop to do the changeover. You may not want to drive a manual, but if you do this changeover, you now have a saleable car. Just wondering. You can do a lot of changeover for $10K.

YD

 

I actually did look into it, but just a little dable into the idea. I quit persuing that avenue because I was told that the labor, and the extra parts needed to make the switch over would be around the same price as just fixing the CVT. So, there really is no benifit there unless someone would either give me the parts or do the labor for free. Or both.

 

Prospective MINI buyers would think twice if it became public knowledge that CVT-equipped cars could need a very expensive repair at 60,000-80,000 miles. Resale values on used, CVT-equipped Coopers would drop, and that in turn would hurt MINI's position in the "highest resale value" rankings of auto manufacturers.

 

I just bought a CVT in October of 2006 and if my transmission goes out before I sell this car, someone at the MINI dealership will pay!

 

And how exactly do you propose to do that if the car is out of warranty? MINI don't have to technically do a thing once the car is no longer under warranty.

 

Curiously I spoke to my master mechanic friend about this and the accident scenario. He told me that it is very possible that a collision could have knocked the chain out of alignment just enough to cause premature wear and thus snap several thousand miles later. He is not familier with the MINI, but does and has been working on cars and trucks for a long time.

Honestly, I still think the collision is the main reason for the failure.

 

Just blew my second belt. First at 36k they fixed it. Second at 133k. $8000 est from the dealer. $5600 for the tranny if I do it myself. Anyone got a good used one I can put in? Anyone know where you can get a belt? I'm going back to driving my Sprite at least I can get the parts .

 

Your problems have nothing to do with the transmission fluid changes..... The bearing fix should be relatively inepensive, maybe $550, including labor, fluid, everthing.... Sounds alot better than a new transmission.....

 

I did a CVT change in my garage almost exactly like strz0001 (in November in St Louis). Not easy but not impossible either. I would love to buy LarryP's broken Mini and put a used tranny in again. Let me know.

 

Just curious how long does a decent transmission last?___mi? How about a good one?

 

Hello All:

Long time lurker; first time poster here.

Add us to the list of CVT owners who are in need of a new transmission to the tune of $8000.

About 10 days ago, our 2003 Cooper (80K miles) started making a strange noise when in forward motion only (noise disappeared entirely when at stand-still or in reverse). All else seemed well--no warning lights, no shifting problems, no acceleration issues, nothing. So although we were troubled by the new sound coming from somewhere under the hood, we took the car into Princeton Mini with confidence that all could be made well.

3 hours later (and $120 poorer), the service manager called us to tell us we needed a new tranny; estimated cost (minimum): $7500!!!! I'm sure you can understand our initial sense of shock, to put it mildy, given that we have taken excellent care of this vehicle and have driven it without any major incident or trauma for more than 4 years. That initial sense of shock has given way to absolute outrage, however, upon learning that so many CVT owners seem to be having transmission issues around or soon after the 70K mark.

I have some specific questions/concerns about the situation, to which I haven't turned up answers in my searches, and I would greatly appreciate and specific information that others may have gained through their own unfortunate CVT situations. Obviously, I'd like to be armed with as much knowledge as possible as I discuss the situation with MiniUSA, and hopefully work toward some sort of fair resolution with them:

1.) Our CVT transmission has not "failed" per se. As noted above, except for the admittedly very worrisome sound coming from under the hood, we are experiencing no problems with vehicle performance on any level. When we asked for a copy of the diagnostic tests that they had performed to determine our need for a new tranny (obviously, we're getting a second opinion, and thought the results of these tests would be informative for our regular mechanic), the service manager at Princeton Mini could NOT produce anything, and finally admitted under pressure that all they had done (for $121, mind you) was to "listen" to the car--nothing was opened up, nothing was examined. Adding insult to injury, when we asked him what, exactly, they "heard"--that is, what EXACTLY the problem IS that makes us need a new transmission (a broken belt? a loose bearing? a little gremlin running around destroying things???), they had no answers, or even informed guesses for that matter. Apparently, they just heard the sound of $8000 coming their way! Obviously, we do not find such an exceptionally vague and imprecise "diagnosis" acceptable on ANY level, and we are wondering if anyone else has experienced similar treatment, and/or if anyone knows this dealership has violated any MiniUSA policies/procedures in delivering such a dire prognosis to our baby without being able to back it up with anything specific?

2.) Does anyone have any specific advise for effective strategies toward communicating with MiniUSA and/or ensuring the most favorable treatment from them? I presently feel a bit stymied in my relations with them. I want to play "nice" for as long as possible, despite our extreme anger and frustration with what seems to be a fairly well-known design flaw, but we're not really moving forward at present. I check in with my CSR daily (and if she's not available--which is fairly often--I check in with another CSR on the status of our case), but all they can tell me is that my case has been "escalated," that the "Market Team" is working on it, and that they hope to have an answer "tomorrow." Meanwhile, I am paying for a rental car for each day that passes without progress, and we are stuck in a state of frustrated limbo. Obviously, I don't feel like we can appeal to the dealer to intercede on our behalf, given that they treated us so shabbily to begin with. Any other tips for getting MiniUSA to be a bit more responsive and expedient would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry to ramble; thanks for reading my post (if you've made it thus far), and thanks in advance for any information, tips, advice, etc.

David

 

Have you considered purhcasing an extended warranty contract from your MINI dealer?

Since the CVT has not failed, your purchase of an extended warranty contract should cover you if it does fail. Noise from the vicinity of the transmission is not indicative of actual failure. The analogy of an alternator bearing comes to mind - the noise indicates the bearing is seriously thinking about going on holiday; but hasn't actually made the decision and acted on the decision. If you buy the extended warranty contract from the dealer that you took the car to (Princeton MINI), there should be no issue regarding a fraudulent transaction on your part. Just go over the extended warranty contract with a lawyer to be sure you are not going to be excluded from coverage if/when the CVT actually fails.

MINI/BMW's decision is going to involve a reduced price to you, but you will still be out somewhere in the $5,000 area. You can argue bad design all you want to; at the end of the day it will come down to the fact that MINI/BMW's warranty was for the first 48 months/50,000 miles of the car's life. After that point, it is your nickel.

 

Did you ask the mechanic about the technical service bulletin about the transmission bearing?

 

no, i did not ask, because i did not know. care to enlighten me?

 

in the interest of putting information out there that may be useful to others (now or in the future), here is an update on my CVT situation...we're making progress, but would love further input, because i'm at a bit of a loss as to what my next move should be...

on friday, per blue_rocket2's teaser (see above), i decided to search the TSBs at alldata for myself. almost IMMEDIATELY, i turned up a bulletin from may 2006 that matches my car's symptoms to a tee (howling noise when in drive/motion; no noise at standstill or in N or P).

cause: excessive wear of the main ball bearing in the CVT transmission
correction: replace the bearing. (duh!)

attached to the tsb are 8 pages of detailed and illustrated instructions for the repair; according to the document, the specialized tools necessary for the repair were shipped to all mini dealers about a year ago.

upon informing them of my discovery, both MiniUSA customer relations AND the dealer's service director claimed no prior knowledge of the tsb in question. the dealer further confirmed that none of their technicians have any training or experience for doing the repair because they have always and only performed transmission replacements for all reported issues.

meanwhile, my second opinion (from someone who does nothing else but work on minis) confirmed the bearing as the source of my problem.

SO...obviously, given the choice, i would rather not go back to the dealer in question for the repair. but i'm wondering how best to approach the service department at another mini dealer. the goal, of course, is to get back on the road as efficiently and as economically as possible. do i inform dealer #2 at the start about all that has transpired, including my discovery of the tsb, or should i try to go in "fresh" and see what direction they take on their own? (is going in "fresh" even possible, given that i've had such extensive communication with MiniUSA and dealer #1?)

also, given the circumstances, what do you think i might reasonably expect as "good will" from MiniUSA?

again, thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

This is a problem that BMW/MINI have known for a while and they refuse to release any data on how many CVT failures have occured. This is very suspect IMHO they are trying to avoid a recall from NTSA. I read awhile back a person in your same situation and they called BMW/MINI of NorthAmerica and they met him halfway with an out of pocket cost of $4400.00. This is still a lot of cash. The mini is only a $24000.00 automobile and if the CVT is $10000.00 then the rest of the car like the door panels must be only about $50.00. Anyway I am just a bit upset at BMW/MINI's lackluster response to this continuing problem. If this happens to my MC even though I have done everything to protect the trans I will try to file a class action against BMW/MINI for the terrible way they are dealing with this. Please keep us up to date on the repair of your mini. GOOD LUCK MATE.

 

Been following these threads with interest as I am at 45K miles and about to run out of warranty ... my MC has been great so far, no issues, but needless to say the recurring CVT issues I have been reading about are not making me happy and am looking to trade the car in.

re: the post above ... it is rather odd that when pushed MINIUSA seems to "meet you half-way" on the pricing of the unit.

And what exactly IS going on with that TSB that was mentioned in a few posts here???