An interesting perspective. With all due respect, the sooner ppl change their oil, the more money you make (and I am not saying you were pushing that in your post). Just an interesting post

 

and the longer people wait to change their oil the more cars car manufacturers sell!!!!!
and yeah let me change everyones oil on the site then i can get twin charged!

 

ditto

 

Well, again, for the 100th time, please find just ONE MINI that followed the BMW maintenaince schedule and following it destroyed the engine. Just one ... then I will be a believer

Until someone does ... I cry Chicken Little "The Sky is falling"

 

Sounds like you've got it all figured out then.........

 

To be serious for one second ... there are dozens upon dozens of threads on this subject on NAM and hundreds all over the net in other car forums.

In this case we are talking about following the BMW recommended service intervals per the cars computer.

People can spend their money how they choose but I'm still looking for a single MINI with engine failure do to following the BMW recommendations. Until someone does ... its all ... moot. With emperical evidence, and hopefully significant statistics ... not a one-off ancedotal story ... I'm going to bet BMW and other car makers know very well what they are recommending.

If, for example, someone followed the BMW maintenaince to a letter and say at 80K the engine failed for an oil issue, it would be ALL over the MINI forums in a instant and I seriously doubt BMW would want all the negative publicity. They know people are going to keep some cars to 100K plus and just follow the manual.

 

Me, twice a year.

 

In this case we are talking about following the BMW recommended service intervals per the cars computer.

Be Honest for a second.........let's say you are in the market for a used car. You have 2 identical cars with the same mileage ,lets say 80k, and in the same condition for the same price. One car followed BMW's recommendations for oil change intervals and the other was changed every 3000 miles .................Be honest which one would you choose?

 

But that is not the issue at hand. The issue is whether or not following BMWs recommendation will damage the car. The 3K mileage thing is simply not valid for synthetics and you know that as you said that. As TTAC said

"It’s easier to convince an Evangelical that Christ was a grifter than to persuade pistonheads to give up their regular oil change. Yea, verily, the maniacal motorists believe in the healing power of regular visits to the Church of St. Pennzoil. And they certainly have the Gospel of Jiffy Lube on their sides: Thou shalt change thy oil every 3k miles or your engine will blow up in an explosion of fire and brimstone. Well I hereby give pistonheads permission to skip their next regularly scheduled motor oil change. And the one after that one. In fact, if you’re not planning to keep your car for all eternity, consider forgetting oil changes altogether.

By the sixties, improvements in all of these mission critical areas led manufacturers to adopt an industry standard 6k mile oil change interval. Since then, recommended oil change intervals have risen as high as 10k miles. At the same time, many high end cars ECU’s (e.g. BMW, Porsche) now monitor engine and environmental operating conditions and calculate the ideal interval for an oil change– sometimes well into the teens. When is the last time you heard of someone experiencing an engine failure (in normal use) that could be verifiably traced to damage from insufficient lubrication due to infrequent oil changes? [bold face mine] Oil never wears out. It can become contaminated and certain additive characteristics can change. But in normal operational use in modern engines, this usually happens quite slowly.

And yet the 3k mile mantra can be heard everywhere: newspaper and magazine articles, on-line forums, radio talk shows and, of course, all the obvious and more subtle forms of advertising by the oil manufacturers and the oil change industry. When Jiffy Lube puts a sticker on my windshield warning me that my next oil change is due in 3k miles, it’s clear who benefits most from these regular visits, and it ain’t me or my car.

In the mid-80’s, Germany’s leading car magazine Auto, Motor und Sport ran a VW Golf with a 1.6 liter gasoline engine for 100,000 kilometers (62,000 miles) without changing the motor oil or filter. They then tore down the engine completely and examined every single moving part [microscopically] for signs of wear and tear. What little wear they could find was not engine life threatening and fit within normal operating parameters for the given mileage. ...

Pistonheads who lavish low interval oil changes and high octane go-juice on the cherishd machines do so more for their own peace of mind than their car’s mechanical needs."

Now some ppl dont like TTAC because its not what they want to hear. And, they even made the same question I asked ... show me one car with a destroyed engine.

Now back to your 80K car. Same everything ... I doubt I would have anyway to verify it unless all records were kept but if were a 2005 on car, I wouldnt care. Yeah, I believe in the synthetics and not throwing money out the window.

Just think about this seriously ... IF ... a single MINI engine could be positively shown with having damage from following the BMW schedule, you know BMW's reputation would be harmed .....

Now to be fair, MINI recommends you change it once/year if the ECU doesnt tell you to so once/year is fine. Thats is exactly what I did, under 10K miles, let MINI change the oil for free.

And BTW, 10 - 15K between oil change is now old news. My CS recommends 20K between changes ... or once/year. Now while some p-car owners will change at 10K if its less than a year, there are still many people, who are just going to follow the manual. IF, in fact, a p-car engine had oil-related damage that destroyed the engine at ANY mileage, never mind 80K ... do you think Porsche would allow that to hurt its image?

Sorry if I sound a bit fanactical about this but technology marches on and I just dont see car companies like BMW or Porsche willing to take the chance that following their maintenaince schedule will harm their engines because if that did happen, I can just see the class action lawsuits coming immediately and international news ... I can just see it now ...

"BMW Admits ... following its maintenaince schedule is harmful to its engines!"

Sorry, I just dont see that happening. Now, of course, I could be wrong so I'd like to see those cars where it happens. Old habits die hard.

 

In case my ealier post caused confusion...

I drive approx. 33k/yr. So following the onboard service indicator, that would make it twice/yr oil change for me. (15k intervals)

 

Don't worry the sky isn't falling yet. Not enough high mileage MINI's out there that have followed that very long oil change interval that BMW approves. Time will tell I guess. In the mean time I will error on the side of safety. My 5000 mile oil changes will be much cheaper than a replacement engine.

 

DITTO!!!!!!!!

 

I agree with Chows.... There are plenty of high mile MINIs out there but I have also not seen one that has failed due to the recommended oil change. No disrespect to gluber, but in his line of work, it pays for people to think that they need to change it more often. Now, on the Subaru that my wife has, the oil is recommended to be changed more frequently. Nothing wrong with that as it is required.

There is nothing that proves an engine designed to use this schedule will fail at any given interval. I have two friends that have well over 100,000 miles on their MINIs using the recommended change interval. To add to that, their "normal" driving conditions are EXTREAMLY different as we have the autobahns that allow us to drive at higher speeds.

I think that many folks are just tossing good money away (you bought the jiffy lube hype) and adding pollutants to the already polluted environment.

This is just my humble opinion.

 

7,500 miles

 

What was I thinking? ..........on second thought oil changes are WAY over-rated. I'm gonna go out and superglue my dipstick shut!
Drive on brothers!

 

OK, let's put it to the test.

I have a MCS/JCW with ~47K miles whose oil has been changed every 2,500 miles.

Find a similar car either another JCW or similar aftermarket mods with similar mileage, bring it to my shop and we'll pop the valve covers off and take a peek to see if there is any visible difference in wear and we'll also look for differences in the amount of sludge buildup and general cleanliness of the top of the cylinder head.

I volunteer to do the removal and reinstallation of the valve covers and I'll even foot the bill for the replacement gaskets. You bring the car with the long interval oil changes and a digital camera (mine's a dinosaur) and we'll find out together if there's a discernable difference.

I'll also wager a crisp $5 bill that my engine will be much cleaner inside than the with the longer oil change interval. If I'm wrong, I'll pay up and probably even go to a longer interval myself....

Any takers?


Rawhyde

PS If anyone wants my used oil (Mobil 1 with 2,500 miles), send me some prepaid shiping materials and I'll give it to you. If you live close enough, just drop by and it's yours for the taking!

 

I'll bet on the 2500 mile car and up the ante to 10 bucks!

 

Again, you will never know unless you send a sample out to be analyzed. Every different synthetic oil has a different base stock and differnet additive package. They won't all loose their effectiveness at the same time.

You also have to consider how long you plan on keeping the car. The engine may go 100 or 150k miles with factory recommended intervals. It's those of us who want to push it to 200k or more who might start seeing problems with oil change frequency. Those last couple thousand miles before a change when the oil is low in additives could really add up.

 

There are NOT that many high mileage MINI's out there to get any kind of legitimate statistic for whether or not the oil change interval is good or bad.

 

I'll believe the empirical data that I saw from professional labs over the “you gotta do it” hype.

FYI, I worked for Mobil and Texaco and have a few friends that still work in the industry. BMW is NOT trying to get over on anyone. Synthetic oil will last as designed. Why is it so hard for people to believe that technology has advanced to this level?

 

There are many threads on this subject and there is always a debate. Times have changed and the following the manufacturer recommendations is very safe in my opinion.

 

I know this isn't a MINI, but here's something for you to think about. My wife leased a 2002 Audi A4 with a 1.8T engine. Audi paid for all services, an oil change every 10,000 miles or one year. The fourth year at 38,000 miles her oil light went on. Motor sludged up. Go figure. If I had owned the car more frequent oil changes most likely would have prevented the problem. Sure glad it was on a lease & under warranty.

 

Wow, well I know of two for sure. Do you have any proof on your point? The car has been in production since 2000. There may not be that many in the states, but there are quite a few running around Europe. FYI, the two cars that are over 100K were 2003 models so it is safe to assume that there are a few older models with the same or higher milage.

My point is that if you are going to spout it out, try backing it with a little proof. You comment was pointless.

Lastly, the MINI is not the only car with this type of schedule. BMW has been doing this for a lot longer and there are other high end vendors that are also doing this.

 

Do what you will. My car is treated with TLC. No that's not an oil additive.

 

There is nothing wrong with that at all... Everyone can do as they please, my only point is that if people are going to start arguing about "facts", then they should have proof to back it. I used to feel the same way until I saw the actual facts on the matter. Now, I just stick to the schedule.