Recently bought a 2002 non-S Coop and I could use some advice from my brethren after receiving some very conflicting shop recommendations regarding the bushings.

I had a pre-purchase inspection done at DAI, a shop nearby highly recommended on the forum:

Jack, there, tells me that my front control arm bushings and ball joints are bad and that it will cost $620 to take care of that (with an alignment).


I take the car for a second opinion to Clark's House of Suspension, also recommended here:

Clark, there, puts the car up and checks it out today and says that there is nothing wrong with either the ball joints or the bushings. He confirms that by stating, "If the front bushings were bad, the tires would be worn on the inside."

Go figure. What's a new Cooper owner to do?

 

Take the opinion that will cost you the least money
If a shop won't take your money then I'd suspect everything is a-ok.

 

Per Jack at DAI Motorsports:

He checks bushings on the Mini's by driving the car in reverse and stabbing on the brakes. If the front wheels "retracts forward", he says that it means that the "front lower control arm" is retracting and this is proof of poor bushings and/or ball joints.

Does this make sense?

 

This actually makes sense to me.
The other way to check it is to put the car up and use a pry bar near the
back of the front lower control arm to see how much play there is.
You have to be familiar with how much play there is in a intact bushing to
tell, however.

 

This is interesting now. I re-interviewed both Jack and Clark who had opposite views about whether my bushings had to be replaced after examing my car.

Jack (from DAI Motorsports) who wants $600 to replace my bushings and ball joints says that he replaces these all the time. His test is driving the car in reverse, hitting the brakes and looking for displacement of the front wheel frontward. The concept being that the bad bushings allow the movement of the front control arm.

Clark (from Clark's House of Suspension) says that my bushings are fine. He says that doing Jack's test will find some displacement of all front wheels, as bushings are rubber and do have some give. He suggested that doing that test could result in a lot of bushings being replaced.

Clark stated that, after performing a visual examination of the components, if the car drives ok and the tire wear is even, the bushings are most likely fine.

Any thoughts (or suggestion of a third party exam in Orange County) for this wide separation of views? This adds up to big bucks if you take ~$500 X the number of minis out there.

 

Since I just went out and tugged on my wheels and found some play, I'm now
wondering how much is normal and how much isn't. Anybody know?
Can move the front tires fore and aft about 1/8 inch with a little effort and
3/16 to maybe 1/4 inch with a bit of effort. No play at all side to side.

 

Did some more thorough measurements. I put the car in gear on a mild slope
downhill, put it in gear, pushed the car forward and set the ebrake, and measured position of the wheel and toe-in.
Then I turned the car around, and pushed it back and did the same.
The fore-aft movement of the wheel is about 3/16 inches and the toe
was 0 in the first position (simulating braking) and 1/16 toe-in in the
second position (simulating acceleration).
It's hard to see the back of the bushing without a lift, but with a mirror and
a flashlight, I can see that both bushings are cracked at 12:00 and 6:00.

The movement is not bad enough to make me want to replace the bushings yet,
but I'm sure it'll get to that point sooner or later. This is on a car with only
30,500 miles (no auto-x, tracking, but lots of potholes and rough roads).
I wonder if the poly bushings last longer, are squeak-free, and if either my
local shop or the MINI dealer would install them. I certainly don't want to
be replacing those front control arm bushings every 20,000 - 40,000 miles.

Also not sure if I want to endure rock hard polyurethane bushings in the
winter months on my daily driver and only car.

Too bad no one makes harder than stock rubber bushings.

Need to think about this a while.

 

Put the car up on ramps today and looking visually at the bushings, they
don't look that bad, but they do have about three times the lateral movement
that the younger reference MINI I compared to has.
I'm really wondering how far I should let it progress before replacing the bushings,
as well as whether to go with OEM or poly.
I saw another product besides the Powerflex bushings at Bavarian Autosport.
Anybody tried these?
http://www.bavauto.com/shop.asp?HC1=...=Mini%20Cooper
They're the fifth product down. Increases caster a little as well as softer
than standard polyurethane.

Sorry if I appear to be hijacking the thread a little, but at least I'm staying
on topic.

 

I installed Power flex font control arm bushings last July and replaced the inner ball joints and tie rods at the same time. The outer ball joints and tie rods - again - will be replaced this weekend.

How many miles on the car? Regarding control arm movement...the front point of restraint - technical term -is a ball joint. So, the control arm does not move about an axis that runs thru to the rear point of restraint - bushing in question. As the LCA moves up and down, the stud in the rear most bushing moves in and out a bit - 1/8" for my Power flex bushings. The arm does this because it is moving around a ball joint - a sphere. So as it roll from the North to South pole, by analogy, it moves closer and farther from the rear bushing...the roll axis is really part of a cone.

So, the wheels will move in ways these folks do not necessarily expect. I personally feel the rear bushing should be changed between 60-80K miles depending on use.

In any event, $600.00 to replace this bushing and the inner? ball joints is a great price...Mini charged me $1,300.00! Replacing the outer ball joints takes about 15minutes a side. tie rods usually bind themselves and need heat or lots of muscle to get loose. These are not fun!

 

As usual, meb has given a wealth of information in his post. Personally I agree with the 60k mile estimate. Especially if you are seeing cracking in the rubber.

The question is replacing them now and avoiding unneeded wear on associated parts due to excessive play, or waiting and just replacing the tierods, ball joints, bushings and outer ball joints down the road....hmmm.......

 

You are trying too hard to diag this. Just stop hard at a slow speed. Do you feel like the front tires are going to come sit up front with you? If so, I would replace bushings. If not, your a okay.

 

I replied to Cristo in a long PM.

Here is my short version. Powerflex bushings are wearing very well given how hard I drive. The question about harshness is always in front of everyone's mind...with unsophisticated dampers/springs, and, nearly bald all-seaon runflats as winter tires - along with cold temps - the Pflex bushings are indeed harsh!

But just changing to the Michellin Pilot Exalto PE2s - summer only - in 205-45/17 improves the ride dramatically. A lot of the sharpness goes away when temps are above 50 deg F. If you run progressive rate springs like PSS9 or others, I cannot imagine these bushings feeling harsh. The package has a lot to do with comfort.

But comfort is a very personal thing.

 

Thanks for the informative PM you sent me.
I think I've decided to go with the Powerflex front control arm bushings.
My rear shocks are starting to go a little soft (fronts are fine), so I'm also
strongly considering a set of the Koni FSD's. This surprises me, as I originally
thought I'd go for the Koni Yellows when the stock shocks wore out.
I want stock ride height, my summer tires have stiff sidewalls (Bridgestone S-03s),
my winter tires are cushy (Michelin Pilot Alpines) for when the bushings get harder,
and I refuse to creep over RR crossings and little bumps as some of
the people around my area do (typically lowered Hondas with fart cannon exhausts
and ridiculously low profile tires).
Will also probably add the rear trailing arm inserts and the Mini-Madness
poly bushings for the top of the rear struts.

 

cristo, a few cautionary tales; someone told me their rear strut broke while using the poly upper rear strut bushing and he’s certain the MM product was at least a contributing factor, I did not have a completely pleasant experience with the Powerflex control arm bushings so I’m going to tell you to look for another option. The Alta alternative at least allows for some degree of articulation on more than one plane although I think a healthy OEM bushing is the best choice for the street. And, if you’re thinking the FSDs are high performance capable, you may want to reconsider because it is not hard to exceed the performance aspect of their functionality in my experienced opinion. The FSDs do provide an exceptionally comfortable ride without wallowing however.

If your mind is set on Poly I have two economical approaches. 1. Buy a used set already installed in the carrier bracket from me https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=98700 2. Install them yourself https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ad.php?t=99725

 

I absolutely agree!

Kieth, you've probably tried more component variations than most of us here, so I'll pose this question to you. The Alta feels right, but I cannot help think that the set screws that hold the stud in place do not allow the stud to move in and out of the bushing the way I see it moving. I spoke with Don about this a couple of times...as I wrote above, the ball joint - other end of the LCA - allows movement across a sphere. As the LCA moves around this ball joint it must move farther away from the rear bushing...I actually see this movement. Your thoughts?


[quote=k-huevo;...although I think a healthy OEM bushing is the best choice for the street...[/quote]

EDIT; Just spoke with Don about some other stuff. He has been playing with the Alta bushing and just told me it does indeed move in and out. It also articulates to a greater degree than the Powerflex bushing...which actually doesn't. So, it appears this is a really well engineered piece of work!!!

 

Current plan:

Replace the OEM rubber front control arm bushings with new OEM ones.

Replace any iffy-looking ball joints.

Koni Sport shocks - rear first, then front (because the rears are more worn on my MC, and
also are easier for me to do by myself than the fronts).

Skip the rear poly things.

Expect to hear me cursing here in a few years about replacing the front CA bushings yet again.

 

Cursing is part of things unexpected...at least you'll know when to get ready.

I just re-built the entire backend - re-adjusted and lubed up all rod ends, pulled the Webb bar apart cleaned, lubed reinstalled, lubed up sliders on the brakes and got the H&R sport kit installed in the rear...plenty of cursing and swearing...right at the point of clean-up I notice a spare bumpstop that wasn't a spare I love doing things twice!

The back feels cushy against the front...those poly bushings up front...

 

Front control arm bushing replaced today at the dealer.
They quoted me 6 hrs labour when I called about it a month ago to
schedule service - they no longer schedule service - first come first serve,
but I lucked onto a quiet day today and it got done quickly while my wife
and I went to the Baltimore National Aquarium and had a sushi lunch (good uni!!).
I had them inspect all the ball joints and tie rod ends and they said they're
all ok and don't need replaced (they shouldn't at 31,500 miles).
Total bill was $550 with 4 hours labour (funny how they called me 3 hours
after I dropped it off to tell me it was all done - I know - fixed scale labour).
Anyway, it's done, and the fore-aft slop is gone, and my camber and toe
are perfect in the front (1/2 neg each side and 0 toe-in). I was worried
the camber might shift with unbolting and rebolting the subframe, but it
seems to be back in exactly the same position as before.

 

Sort of the same subject. Would an improperly done alignment cause lower control arm bushing damage?