Suspension Cabrio front braces on non-cabrio?
#126
10-26-2009, 01:38 AM
#127
10-26-2009, 11:09 AM
#129
10-27-2009, 01:50 AM
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#131
10-27-2009, 10:11 PM
Here is finished photo and clean,
I would not use self taping, as they would work loose, The huge 1/4 steel rivits like GM uses for window regulators maybe,
I hate! doing things over and my OCD keeps me from not doing it the hard way!
Also noticed Less dash noise,With H sport camberplates, koni yellow shocks one click down from full stiff, and Runflats Coni tires at 45psi
I would not use self taping, as they would work loose, The huge 1/4 steel rivits like GM uses for window regulators maybe,
I hate! doing things over and my OCD keeps me from not doing it the hard way!
Also noticed Less dash noise,With H sport camberplates, koni yellow shocks one click down from full stiff, and Runflats Coni tires at 45psi
Last edited by dhabutcher; 10-27-2009 at 10:25 PM. Reason: Added info, Dorkish mis spelling
#132
10-28-2009, 08:29 AM
#133
10-28-2009, 03:39 PM
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#134
10-28-2009, 07:46 PM
#135
10-29-2009, 09:44 AM
I just came across this thread recently and unless something drastic has changed this was always a two beer job at MOST. I did this when the first cabs came out more or less to prove to some of the " experts " on here that a non cab owner could obtain them easily. The rumor was that if you didn't have a proper VIN number blah blah blah you couldn't get them . Well as we all know this was BS.
My install process went as follows:
Open beer .
Jack up left side of car .
Remove wheel
Remove wheel liner
Position Brace
Drill holes where necessary
Find some bolts laying around that are about the proper size and just long enough, add locktight and tighten.
Replace fender liner
Replace wheel
Open second beer
Repeat as above on right side
Go for a drive
've put over 65,00 miles on the car since then with no issues.
Randy
M7 Tuning
My install process went as follows:
Open beer .
Jack up left side of car .
Remove wheel
Remove wheel liner
Position Brace
Drill holes where necessary
Find some bolts laying around that are about the proper size and just long enough, add locktight and tighten.
Replace fender liner
Replace wheel
Open second beer
Repeat as above on right side
Go for a drive
've put over 65,00 miles on the car since then with no issues.
Randy
M7 Tuning
#136
10-29-2009, 11:08 AM
I was pleased to discover that a previous owner had kindly installed them in my '05 R53....
This seems like a great write-up, but could someone please summarize (ignorant newbie that I am) in layman's terms how the cabrio braces actually work?
If you take a close look at the engine bay of a MINI, it will quickly become apparent that all of the parts that make the car go and stop are attached to a pair of “fork-lift prongs” that stick a couple of feet forward from the cabin, and which are not particularly well supported.
The forces acting on these two lower sub-frame members include:
- engine torque; the more power, the more stress,
- impact forces through the lower suspension mounts from every bump you hit, with heavier wheels amplifying the stresses that hit frame,
- weight transfer, as when the car dives under hard braking, or rolls to the outside in a corner,
- gyroscopic vertical twisting forces generated when you try to turn with all those rapidly-rotating parts that have their axis laterally across the car.
So these sheet-metal structures are supposed to resist all of these strong stresses, and ideally, remain rigid enough that the driver can’t tell that the car is twisting and bending like crazy, under rapidly-changing dynamic loads from all directions. Fat chance.
It is my belief that the diagonal braces function mostly in compression, and that since they triangulate the lower sub-frame out in front of most of the loads that are applied to it, they go a long way toward resisting twisting forces, motion toward center, and vertical fore-and-aft flexing of the sub-frame. The effects I mention would all support that this is the case.
The forces acting on these two lower sub-frame members include:
- engine torque; the more power, the more stress,
- impact forces through the lower suspension mounts from every bump you hit, with heavier wheels amplifying the stresses that hit frame,
- weight transfer, as when the car dives under hard braking, or rolls to the outside in a corner,
- gyroscopic vertical twisting forces generated when you try to turn with all those rapidly-rotating parts that have their axis laterally across the car.
So these sheet-metal structures are supposed to resist all of these strong stresses, and ideally, remain rigid enough that the driver can’t tell that the car is twisting and bending like crazy, under rapidly-changing dynamic loads from all directions. Fat chance.
It is my belief that the diagonal braces function mostly in compression, and that since they triangulate the lower sub-frame out in front of most of the loads that are applied to it, they go a long way toward resisting twisting forces, motion toward center, and vertical fore-and-aft flexing of the sub-frame. The effects I mention would all support that this is the case.
#137
10-29-2009, 03:28 PM
They are only effective against resonance (vibrations) eminating from the front of the car. They offer no additional support to aid in the handling of the car. They were adopted as a way to help eliminate the dash rattle on the cabrio's. This from an automotive engineer friend of mine that looked very closely at these braces and their location.
#138
10-29-2009, 05:58 PM
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#139
10-29-2009, 07:17 PM
Interesting read.
I just got a set so i thought i would add my $0.02
Coming from a back ground of 20 years of auto body experience ICAR and ASE master certified, I have spent most my life on a frame rack
When you have a car tied to a 2000 pound slab of steel with 4 tons of pulling power you can move things where ever you want, But also with the chain pulled tight, and the added weight of myself ( 180 lbs ) you can watch the gaps in the pinch welds open and close, Think of corning forces? Ever open a car door with the car on a jack?, There is a lot of flex, I have noticed, if i would add 3 to 5 more spot welds ( big pinch type spot welder that car makers use) It will actually stiff in the rail, door jamb, hinge pillar what ever you want to put 3 to 5 more seconds into, Most slicing using a extra backing plate, so just one more layer of same Gauge sheet metal makes a huge difference,
So any thing to add strength and durability
and for the questions about added weight, These are super light your floor mats weigh more
Hoping the weekend,
I just got a set so i thought i would add my $0.02
Coming from a back ground of 20 years of auto body experience ICAR and ASE master certified, I have spent most my life on a frame rack
When you have a car tied to a 2000 pound slab of steel with 4 tons of pulling power you can move things where ever you want, But also with the chain pulled tight, and the added weight of myself ( 180 lbs ) you can watch the gaps in the pinch welds open and close, Think of corning forces? Ever open a car door with the car on a jack?, There is a lot of flex, I have noticed, if i would add 3 to 5 more spot welds ( big pinch type spot welder that car makers use) It will actually stiff in the rail, door jamb, hinge pillar what ever you want to put 3 to 5 more seconds into, Most slicing using a extra backing plate, so just one more layer of same Gauge sheet metal makes a huge difference,
So any thing to add strength and durability
and for the questions about added weight, These are super light your floor mats weigh moreHoping the weekend,
They are only effective against resonance (vibrations) eminating from the front of the car. They offer no additional support to aid in the handling of the car. They were adopted as a way to help eliminate the dash rattle on the cabrio's. This from an automotive engineer friend of mine that looked very closely at these braces and their location.
I really do put a lot of weight on the first two quotes, it simply makes too much sense...we see and hear our cars creak or rattle, and see gaps open and tighten....anything to stiffen things up...especially around the strut-tower area is a huge plus.
#140
10-29-2009, 07:20 PM
They just stiffen things up a bit.....same idea as a strut-tower brace....just in a different area and direction.
#141
10-29-2009, 09:43 PM
Quick test,
Go find your kids swing set, take out the tiny bar connecting the 2 legs together, Ok jump on and swing, swing hard,
Notice anything? Regardless how small the bar is, Its the sum of the parts,
The small brace we ALSO creates a Triangle from the tower to the frame rail,
Take a look at a Ducati frame sum of a lot small tubes
Great photos MAXMINI,
Go find your kids swing set, take out the tiny bar connecting the 2 legs together, Ok jump on and swing, swing hard,
Notice anything? Regardless how small the bar is, Its the sum of the parts,
The small brace we ALSO creates a Triangle from the tower to the frame rail,
Take a look at a Ducati frame sum of a lot small tubes
Great photos MAXMINI,
#142
10-29-2009, 10:27 PM
We can all have our opinions and our " experts " . Mine was a local guy and a long time race car chassis builder who also happened to design the BMP strut tower brace which I think was one of the nicest for a long time . When i complimented him on it he said there was one thing he wished he could have done and that was to add down tubes to the frame rails , almost in the same spot as the lower mounting point of the cab brace, to his tower bar. He said there was no easy way to do it and that the cost would have pushed them out of the market price point so he did not pursue it . When the braces became available I remembered our conversation and that added to my reason to undergo the project. The bottom line is it is a very inexpensive item and a simple back yard install so why not ?
Randy
M7 tuning
Randy
M7 tuning
#143
10-30-2009, 01:05 AM
BMP Strut Tower Brace is a very nice item, i love the look of that kinda brace, I once saw a sparco brace on a site, they had one listed for mini but the pic was a typical photo, looked great for the civic but no one had a actual photo of mini part
The body shop i worked at the owner races IMCA dirt track, we always had extra tubing left over from building his cars, I was going to build my own............i had wanted to do something as metioned, cross brace with legs down to frame would had looked trick,
but never finding a whole lot of time i gave up took quick way out.
Now i am looking to get the rear behind the seats, and a under car
Not sure how many drive there cars in cold cold weather, here in Wyoming it can go from 65 to -30 in day, i reacall first iced over day backed the coop out of the drive and heard the roof creak and crack, thought the sunroof was going to give out, ( i did the h sport camber plates and brace, and cabrio bars all in a 3 week period ) i have noticed that the creaking and poping up in my drive way is a Whole lot less
The body shop i worked at the owner races IMCA dirt track, we always had extra tubing left over from building his cars, I was going to build my own............i had wanted to do something as metioned, cross brace with legs down to frame would had looked trick,
but never finding a whole lot of time i gave up took quick way out.
Now i am looking to get the rear behind the seats, and a under car
Not sure how many drive there cars in cold cold weather, here in Wyoming it can go from 65 to -30 in day, i reacall first iced over day backed the coop out of the drive and heard the roof creak and crack, thought the sunroof was going to give out, ( i did the h sport camber plates and brace, and cabrio bars all in a 3 week period ) i have noticed that the creaking and poping up in my drive way is a Whole lot less
#144
10-30-2009, 02:16 AM
So, for all of you who have installed the convertible braces, I gotta ask: how'd you get the bottom-most bolt in?
I installed the braces on my MINI tonight. Pretty straightforward, overall, though I did need to move some of the wires on the driver's side.
Except when it came to the bottom-most bolt/screw. For the life of me, I couldn't get in there with either my impact driver or a torx screwdriver to get it seated all the way. Right now, I've got three tightened screws on each brace, and one where the screw needs about five more cranks to be seated.
I just couldn't get the clearance I needed to get in there because of the wheel arch. I don't need to remove those, do I?
Advice?
I installed the braces on my MINI tonight. Pretty straightforward, overall, though I did need to move some of the wires on the driver's side.
Except when it came to the bottom-most bolt/screw. For the life of me, I couldn't get in there with either my impact driver or a torx screwdriver to get it seated all the way. Right now, I've got three tightened screws on each brace, and one where the screw needs about five more cranks to be seated.
I just couldn't get the clearance I needed to get in there because of the wheel arch. I don't need to remove those, do I?
Advice?
#145
10-30-2009, 04:05 AM
2nd Gear
#147
10-30-2009, 10:47 AM
3rd Gear
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#148
10-31-2009, 11:39 AM
Well, I decided to remove the fender liners today. Nice day without rain in Seattle, new jack stands, free time...all the ingredients for a good few hours of work.
Alas, once I got the fender liners off and had a clear shot at the bolts, I discovered that the torx heads are successfully stripped.
ARGH!
So, anyone have any advice on how to get them off so I can replace them with new bolts? Those buggers are in there...
Alas, once I got the fender liners off and had a clear shot at the bolts, I discovered that the torx heads are successfully stripped.
ARGH!
So, anyone have any advice on how to get them off so I can replace them with new bolts? Those buggers are in there...
#149
10-31-2009, 11:51 AM
#150
10-31-2009, 11:54 AM
