Well, we finally got a little bit of free time to work on the cars that we have here. First up is the coilovers for the mini (new prototype parts go on the STi tommorw - I hope). So far all we've been able to do is get a whiteline completely solid, blade adjustable 20mm rear bar on (which we've been very happy with), but that's going to start to change.

Take a looksie as what goes on tonight:

 

nice!!!

 

nice! I put Whiteline Group4's on an '04 STI and they were nice. I believe they are the same as AST, but might be remember that wrong. Good to see another quality option for the MINI though

 

can't wait for comments!

 

Very cool, I definitely want to hear some feedback on those bad boys.

 

You are correct in that regard, but WL has stopped having them made. We've actually been working AST to dial in a nice setup for the STi. We've got quite the thread on the development over on iwsti.com if you want to check it out.

We need to play around a bit with alignment, and balance it, but just from a slap them on and go for a spin feeling they are going to be a nice setup.

 

Hello, I am the other driver of the car and have had it in my possesion for the last couple days.

So far I am really liking them, but more tuning is definitely necessary.

I have autoxed the car a few times and driven it on the road for about 1000 miles as well. The coilovers have made the car much more predictable on all surfaces in all situations. The stock suspension is very soft and has a tendency to pitch and roll especially under braking and accelerating. I found it very difficult to dial in the exact level of steering input needed on turn-in, especially at high speed, with the stock suspension. I would start to turn-in and as the weight transferred and the very soft springs started to react the car woudl get very floaty and steering correction was needed to keep the car on the desired line. The problem I was having is trying to to over correct as the car would begin to slide the back end, especailly after the new rear sway bar.

the coilovers have solved this with better overall body control. Weight transfer happens much more quickly now and with less body motion making the car much easier to control and more confidence inspiring.

The damping feels pretty good (12 position adjustable). half way through the adjustment feels good for daily normal driving. They are comfortable and soak up the bumps reasonably well. For sport/race driving the front seems happy at around 10 or so, which is most of the way stiff. At that level I have had hit some very large bumps mid corner with the suspension well loaded and not had any problems with bobbling or skipping across the pavement.

Tonight I am going to look at the heights to determine if that is where I want them. One thing to consider is the Macpherson strut suspension in the front of the car. If the car is lowered too much, camber will be lost during turning which will reduce front grip and increase understeer. I'd like to keep the control arms at least parallel to the ground to minimize camber loss. I have also noticed a vibration that appears to be from the angle of the driveshafts. It is only present under load and not when crusing. I have a feeling it is a result of lowering the car more than Mini wants.

I will take some pics tonight after I mess with the heights some.

Tony

 

Just to add to this since folks have noted the vibration even with lowering springs. My theory is that the CVs are just out of optimal range when lowering the car. I think new axles with higher angle CVs would fix this problem. I tried emailing Raxles about this, but have not heard back. I need to call them or talk to Tom@Kartboy about the shop he uses for axles.

 

The axles aren't affected if you use coilovers with the preload adjustment feature, you can keep everything in line while lowering.

 

might need to call Raxles...they were always responsive in the past

 

How do you figure? Lowering is lowering. Preload affects the amount a car is lowered, but the ultimate problem is the axles are put at "extreme" angles due to the amount the body is lowered.

I raised the front last night from 12.75" hub to fender to about 13.25" and the vibration went away. From my initial observations, it looks like ~12.75" is about the limit to lowering the front for handling reasons. Any lower and the control arms would go beyond parallel with the ground and lots of camber would be lost during turning.

Current heights are 13.25" in the front and 13" in the rear. Car feels pretty good....more to come as I get more time to play with it.

Tony

 

Sorry i need my morning coffee. just thought about it and the angles are going to be messed up anyway. Even if you can adjust the length of the strut relative to the lower control arm the chassis still sits lower. WHOops... dunce cap please. I want some camber plates tho lol. I just have H&R springs w/ sport suspension. Not to completely change hte subject, do you have a rear sway upgrade tony??

Thanks!
Josh

 

I beat Tony to the punch on this one. First thing we did was push the front tophats in for camber up front. Second thing we did was put a Whiteline rear bar on the car. Both of those happened within 48 hours of picking up the car. It's a solid (as in not hollow) 20mm adjustable bar. After some initial playing around with it we bumped the bar to the stiffest setting which should be around the equivilant of 22mm.

I know what you mean on the top hats. We've been talking to some folks about making some independent caster and camber plates for the front. Not just for camber control, but the car could use some more caster. There's a couple of other products out there that can also add caster that we're looking into.

While we had the car apart to get the coilovers on I noticed a couple of other things that can be improved upon. I gotta call up a dealer and get the stock parts here so I can start to take some measurements and get those started. Usually I would just pull them off the car, but since we're already 1 car down (due to an oil pressure problem) we need the Mini ready to roll full time.

Anybody have a dealer they work with to get stock parts at a decent price? Our Subaru hook-ups don't carry MINI stuff.

 

I had caster/camber plates for my mustang, they really improved the handling tenfold with a proper alignment. I really feel these are my next step along with a rear sway. How is the rears tendency to rotate now? My front end washes out sometimes, i think its a combination of wussy stock rear sway and not enough from camber (i do have a good bit of rear camber). Nice coilovers though... I'd like to scoop a set when camber plates are available

 

All:

Ireland Engineering has front camber plates on their website for R56 MCS. Their BMW 2002 products were of high quality.

I have done suspensions on many BMWs and Porsches...one of my most unsatisfactory outcomes was with a newly released H & R coilover setup for a new 1999 996 Porsche. Rear rebound control was awfull, car pogosticked on the street. I have forever since been cautious about these changes. Have a PSS9 kit on my 2000 M5, seems ok but not perfect compromise, though still tuning it...have a 996 turbo with a Cross kit, lack of rubber is nasty, and actually springs are a bit soft for the track.

Best bet, drive it, unless you personally are familiar with the reviewers suspension sensibilities.

Thus far, I have put Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires on the 17 in crown spokes (225-45) with no fit problems but with a slight but displeasing decrement in throttle "snap," i.e., response. Only 3% taller gearing result, but just noticable on my porky overly-equiped example. (see thread "crown-spokes wheel weights?")

I yearn for improvments in the rear shock valving primarily, and alignment changes as well. A slightly firmer spring with not more than a 30-35 mm drop would be nice. Sharp turn-in, progressive rotation of the rear without rear instability at high speed, and a decent street ride would be my ideal, so suggestions of interest. Thinking H & R coilovers or jsut springs plus Koni FSDs or Bilsteins once available, though would consider a PSS9 kit as well. M7 looks low for my requirements. The PS Cup tires utterly transform the car, BTW, best dollar value, though I would suggest something shorter.

looking forward to hearing more about suspension outcomes- and the Vishnu PROcede project...

DocB

 

Classic MINI/BMW in Ohio and Morristown MINI in NJ are good resources. Classic is good with emailed requests....Morristown needs a phone call. Also...check out www.realoem.com to peruse parts diagrams and part numbers.

Problem with most coilovers is that they aren't specific to the car...they are generic inserts adapted to fit new applications. A wide tuning range and spring rates in the general area of what you need are key....but you know this already!

 

THe nice thing about our position though is AST USA listens to us about what changes we feel need to be performed on teh design and damping setup of these. We have been working with them on our STI version and so far they have been great with accomodating us making revisions to the dampers to make them perform in the way we feel is best for the US and for what we do.

 

Having too much rear camber will really make the car understeering badly under power. You really need to limit the amount of rear camber on this car to get rid of the understeer along with getting much more front camber. We haven't gotten adjustable rear lins yet, so we have about -2* of camber in the rear which is about 1*-1.3* more than I want. We only have about -1.5* in the front and want closer to -3*.

 

I have -.7 in the front, i REALLY want more like 2 or 2 and a half degrees at least. I like driving like a nut lol. The ireland engineering pieces look good but they're not adjustable. DEFINITELY keep us informed about the plates and the coilovers, they look awesome and i'll definitely scoop up some camber plates and maybe those ASTs also, they look awesome!

Thanks!
Josh

 

I run -3* on my wrx for street and track in the front and really like it. I have up to -3.5* in the past and really like it, but with current mods on the car I don't have to run quite as much.

 

... and the vendor account is now active. The posts by cboggess and subieworx will now start to fall under this account.

-Clint

 

sweet!!! TiC is in the house

<---- hangs out on OT when not here

 

Wow!! It sure didn't take an otter long to notice we're here!! Spread the word that we're over here, and starting work on the MINI.

 

I wanted to update this thread with the news of a recent approval of ride characteristics from my girlfriend. She said it really isn't bad at all and really enjoys driving the car much more now. She is used to stiffer suspensions, but said this is quite nice compared to many we have had on our cars.

Tony

 

I have used a few IE products in my roadster, with good results. On your suspension frustrastions... I avoided both of those suspensions you mentioned and went with TC Kline for my suspension and have been very happy.

For suspension, I am pretty familiar with Clint & Tony and spent many days at auto-x and some track with them. I have driven the **** out of their cars as they have mine. Their known for not releaseing a product on its first revision. Its got to work, get tweaked, work better, then put through hell and back, then they will sell it to someone.

I did some test drives on their AST suspension for the STi. I was driving some twisties up in the mountains so its not actual track conditions. It soaked up the road enough to be a daily driver. I would have liked a little stiffer for track/auto-x, but it was a well sorted out street suspension. With the combination of those AST and the RE01-R, the car had tons of grip, predictability, and had a great overal feel.

Clint & Tony - glad to see you have an account and are gearing up for the mini.