What is the best alignment I can get for my car? I do aggressive street driving, but not at the track. I also drive about 3,000 miles a month. I'm getting rear camber links to help out. I need front and rear camber and front and rear toe settings. The car also needs to be able to driving in the rain. Right now I'm running -2.5 camber on all four corners and the car handles like crap in dry or wet. I know the toe is off but not sure by what.

Thanks
Mario

 

Well, i would say camber would be entirely dependent on you suspension and driving. Keep checking you wear until your tires wear evenly, but i would start around 1.25 in the front and probaly about 1 in the back. As for toe, zero the back, and maybe 1/8 out inthe front. That is the toe i was running on the street and loved it, good in the rain, good on wear (i think mine was 1/8 in from the factory up front anyway), but the toe out gave really good turn in and rotation on the street with my street tires 9which were oem runflats at the time. Of course tho, everyone will tell you something completly different. Right now tho, im running 1/16 out in the front, .3 camber (no plates yet, but they are at my friends house) and in the rear i got 3/16 out in the rear and 1.2 camber, but i dont have much rubber left in my suspension, and only own rcomp tires, cant comment on wear, didnt drive on that alignment for long before mothballing the car for winter, but it sure felt nice to drive tho, i liked it better than my first mentions specs, but i dont think i would be too street friendly in a true daily driver. hope this helped Beecher

 

-2.5 is too much for the street. Also, I would think that any car as slammed as yours would handle badly. Just a sugestion, but set your ride height about an inch lower than stock and restore your alignment to stock. Your car will handle better and ride nicer.

However, if you want better settings:
I run -2 camber up front, and -1.6 camber in the rear. Front and rear toe-in is 0.5 deg. This gives great handling for me in all weather, but I think my rear camber might still be a bit too much. The front toe-in is to compensate for bushing squish under breaking and the rear tow-in give stability at highway speed. btw, I have 4 adj. rear control arms, camber plates, stock springs & dampers, and a 22mm sway on stiff.

I also think that tires and tire/rim size have alot to do with it.

 

Which tires do you have? How many miles on them already?
Tires play a major role in handling.

Front adjustable camber plates and rear lower adjustable control arms will allow you to make camber front and back to the settings you want.

You drive quite a bit each month so alignment friendly for street driving would make sense.

While you have many mods you don't track your MINI so it doesn't make much sense to overdo it for alignment but you don't have to go so far as to set it at stock alignment settings which are pretty tame for aggressive driving and would favor understeer.

For street use but still be OK for good handling and good tire wear-

Front camber -1.5 to -2.5 degrees
Front toe zero to 1/16" toe out

Rear camber -1.0 to -1.3 degrees
Rear toe 1/16" toe in

Front camber- If you really like to corner hard then -2.0 to -2.5 degrees is fine and will wear OK for street use. Toe setting is critical for tirewear. It sounds severe to have that much camber but it doesn't look that bad.

front toe- stock setting is toe in so more toe out with help in quicker steering response on turns but more wear on your tires once you hit about zero toe. I run 1/8" toe out and use my MINI for daily driving and find it is OK but I don't do many miles each month compared to you. Both zero toe and 1/16" toe out would work, want better wear?-go zero toe.

Rear camber- more negative like the -2.5 degrees you have gives more understeer on the MINI. Stock range is -1.0 to -2.0. I had H-sport springs added and my rear camber went to -2.4 and handling was poor, everything rattled. Got alignment done and it was much better. Rear camber should be about 1 degree less negative than the fronts or a little less. There is no need to make rear camber much more negative than about -1.2 or -1.3 for street driving except for looks. It doesn't make much sense for both front and rear to be -2.5 degrees.

Rear toe- stock settings are toe in. You can get good handling with 1/16" toe in for street driving and that probably is your best bet.

Tires are key, if your tires are worn you can eventually replace them with something good for both wet and dry weather. What is your rim size? 18x7.5?

in 225/35-18
Max Performance Summer tires good for wet or dry:

Michelin Pilot sport PS2 $242 each 220 treadwear (Fewer than 6 in stock at tirerack.com now) http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ilot+Sport+PS2

Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3 $198 each 280 treadwear
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....Eagle+F1+GS-D3

Test results-
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=98
Pirelli PZero tested well but not available in MINI tire sizes that fit. Unless you want to use 225/40-18 which is tall at 25.1" tire diameter. If you have coilovers and can adjust ride height you can make it fit with a little help from negative camber in the rear. But in that size you also have a choice of tires-

In extreme performance summer tires- bridgestone Potenza RE-01R (good handling wet or dry but wears fast)
In UHP All Season tires- Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS and Yokohama Advan S.4. (handle well but not quite as good as Max performance summer tires, wears longer, comfortable for street use).

Or in 215/35-18 (UHP all season tire both tested well- see below)
Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season $134 each 420 treadwear
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...ay.jsp?ttid=87
and
Pirelli PZero Nero M+S 400 treadwear
215/35-18 $158 each 24" tire diameter
215/40-18 $153 each 24.8" tire diameter (a little tall)

 

So is:

Front camber: -1.5 to -1.8 (fixed camer plates)
Front toe: 0 toe
Rear camber: -1.2
Rear toe: 1/16 toe in
Are these good for agressive street driving and tire wear?
I do not want a twitchy car in a straight line and in a turn! (I hate that!)

 

From personal experience before and after my alignment about a year ago:

Aggressive numbers (-2.0 or more front camber, -1.3 or more rear camber ) will help you corner better, but note that those same settings will lead to twitchy handling at highway speeds...don't sneeze man. Toe-in at rear adds to stabilty at speed, to counter some of that twitchiness.

Your numbers, Chilipeppa, are a good balance. If you find it too twitchy, just get it realigned. Just tell them the car wanders or something, they will realign it to try to please you. But if your shop is cool, they will let you come back anytime that day and get it changed till you are happy.

 

Beecher, nabeshin, and minihune, thank you for your imput. As of now my car corners like sh*t and drives on the freeway rough and in the rain it impossible to drive. The tires are about 7 weeks old. the back look NEW but the front wore out from one 1000 mile trip. The front are now bald! I'm running Yokohama 215-40-18 now. I have front camber plates and rear camber links. What is the max I can lower the car before causing problems? Right now I'm about 2" lower than stock

 

Yokohama in 215/40-18 would be-
Parada Spec2 (handling OK, sometimes noisy)
S.Drive (didn't get good test results in EVO mag review)
Avid W4S (not bad for UHP All Season tire)

Wearing tires in 1000 miles usually means bad toe settings- which would make sense since handling is not good. Could be a combination of problems see below chart.

Someone set your front and rear camber to -2.5, do you still have the print out for toe settings?

Did you add suspension upgrades recently? Usually after upgrading suspension especially if it affects ride height, you should do an alignment.

2" lowering front and rear is on the verge of being slammed depending on which tires you have. Since yours are slightly taller than stock I think you are near your limit. My MINI is lowered 1.8" and I run 215/45-17 tires and am fine. Good handling on the street wet or dry, tires wear very well.

Check the location of the wear on your front tires. Is it worn most on the outer edges or the inner edges or somewhere else. Outer edges worn means you don't have enough negative front camber for how hard you are cornering, worn inner front edges mean you have too much negative camber.


Misalignment Condition (Tire Wear Symptom)

Incorrect Camber Setting (Premature smooth wear on either inside or outside shoulder).

Incorrect Toe Setting (Feathered wear across tread; raised tread block edges).

Incorrect Caster Setting (Excessive shoulder wear; tread blocks show "heel-toe" wear pattern).

Unequal Caster/toe setting (either side is out of specification) -(Sharp pulling necessitates steering compensation and feathered wear).

Combination of two or more settings are out of specification. (Irregular tread wear with feathering and smooth spots).



Also check you tire inflation pressures and make sure you are not over or under inflated. Both can cause excessive tire wear.

 

I have the "S" Drives with 33lbs on each tire. The front tires are smooth across the whole tire evenly. I'm guessing on the -2.5 in camber on front are rear because thats what I keep hearing from other Mini owners that see me car. I love the way my car sits but the drive is crap.
I just put new coilovers again in my car about 3 weeks ago and I didn't want to alighn it because the car kept settling. The suspension has dropped about 3/8" since the first week I installed it.

 

All four of my tires are feather on the edges a little. The front ones are worse. I mean I do drive the car hard! Could this be the improper toe and caster factor? Is it hard to adjust caster? I am running 1/16 toe out in the front and 1/16 toe in on the rear.

 

Sup Mario...I also have Cross's and I really like the feel of the set up so far. I'm thinking I could have been more aggressive on the toe out in the front...but not sure since Im a noob. Also, I dont have any data on tire wear right now and prol wont until weather gets warmer and dryer. I have 17" Eagle GS-D3's in 215/45/17 and don't feel like I have any slippage or twitchiness...at least in the dry. Here is a print out of my alignment settings:



BTW, I would welcome any opinions and advice regarding my current and first every alignment. Thanks.

 

Here are some pix I took. These tires are 6 weeks old, the rear look brand new but the front are worn evenly but in only 1400 miles:-( and the car drive like sh*t

 

It took only 1400 miles to do that? WTF?

 

I had a car with too much toe out. went from 2" lowered to stock height w/o alignment. (ahh to be 17 again) ended up with 1/2" toe out and wore through a brand new set of 420 treadwear tires in 200 highway miles. So, it's possible.
Thank god I learned that lesson. After that, I bought all the SPC stuff to do my own alignments, and never looked back. Well, except to laugh at myself.

 

Simply...wow...

 

check your toe, that certainly doesn't sound right

i run 2.0 negative camber front, -1.5 in the rear, no toe, even my falken Azenis, with constant autoxes and odd track days ( i have track rubber) wore over 15,000km, and they are suppose to be quick to run down tires

and, with those settings i did a small short track day in pouring rain on those, and STILL i didn't have traction problems (well, i was holding back of course, we had a Forester Turbo almost flip on us!)

 

I remember driving on 1/2 toe out on one rear tire in the pouring raing with about 5 seconds of drive time on new r comps. hahaha, that was fun. If your tires ran out that quick, i would say your toe is way out of wack. That and all your horsepower, hahah (J/K). You really dont need to get real agressive with your alignment setting for street. I was running fast on stock geometry, then i changed things up and got alot faster (mild 1/8 toe out front zero back, -.3 camber fron -1 back, and i loved it, would go for that for street driving, and my tires wore evenly, but would recomend more camber up front if you can, likei said earlier about -1.25. That should give you goot street driving and without any serious tire wear. With my car on that it was as fast in the rain that it was in the dry (actually may have been abit faster believe it or not, just going by set of the pants, but my suspension wasnt very stiff, and probably the explanation for that). In the spring when my plates and coils are in, i will be changing geometry and spring setting endlessly probably.

Kyriian: i wont even go there man. I should stop busting your ***** so much man, but its just so much fun. When are you leaving and comming back man, i was going to have a small get together, and your invitied, but other than knowing im going to have one, i got nothing yet, no dates or anything. So whens your trip, and i will try to accommodate.


Beecher

 

u got mr. daniel himself doing your alignment!!!

that said, i want to pay him a visit in the spring, need to corner balance those H&Rs finally

 

yeah, he helps a great deal, and i do use all his equipment. haha

Beecher

 

Do you have a resonable local garage near you that race's mini's, if you do it's worth going to them to have your car set up the way you want it. I had mine set up for the track recently. I sat in the car while they did all the settings and balanced the car beautifully. The car handles great, but driving a track set up on the road is not going to be as smooth and will require you to swap your tyres around a few times to counter act the negative camber wear on the tyres.

 

On the 02-04 cars is the front toe adjustable stock or is there something needed for a full alignment?

 

Yes, front and rear toe is adjustable on your car. Camber is not. After 05 the rear camber is slightly adjustable.

 

Good to know thanks. What are the upper rear control arms for then? I was under the impression that they were for toe adjustments.

 

For MINIs all years you can set front and rear toe.

Front camber cannot be adjusted in MINIs from 2002-2006, but in the 2007 R56 you can adjust a little front camber about 0.5 degrees

Front Castor cannot be adjusted in any year.

Rear camber cannot be adjusted in MINIs from 2002-2004, but in 2005-2006 there was a smaller adjuster at the bottom of the rear lower control arm that allowed for about 0.5 degrees.

For alignment you can keep any of these settings in the stock range or not.

Stock alignment will favor less wear on tires and more understeer (for safety reasons- easier to stay out of trouble).

Performance alignment can-
Favor more neutral handling (reduce natural understeer)
Wear tires faster especially with toe out in the front
Result in twitchy handling if front toe is out far
Wear tire inside edges with street driving if camber is very negative
Make better use of your performance tires during track sessions.

 

Yes they are.

See also-
https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...d.php?t=112434

The lower rear adjustable control arms are for setting rear camber (commonly done)

While upper rear control arms can be upgraded to adjustable ones to set toe, you do not need to do this unless you want to since toe can be adjusted without upgrading the upper rear control arms.