When I took delivery of my R56 earlier this year, I was pretty excited about the engine, awesome fuel economy, and tire roasting torque. As I became acclimated to the car, one weak point rang out; the steering feel. The steering felt like I was wrestling with a 400 pound rubber gorilla; vague, numb, some torque steer, and definitely NOT confidence inspiring. To be honest, the weekend I took it to the Dragon was the weekend I decided to sell it. Apparently, more than I realized, steering feel and confidence from that is a deal killer for my automotive enjoyment.

I installed a set of H&R springs. Doing so lowers the suspensions roll-center. This makes the car more resistant to body roll, essentially inducing "sticktion" to the chassis which creates more positive steering feel. While the steering feel was improved and the torque steer was reduced, it was still a far cry from what I was used to in my R53, Miata, and Evo IX.

I also installed a set of aftermarket wheels and tires. 18" wheels with a 38mm offset and Kumho SPT 215/35-18 summer tires. The offset change added some scrub radius, which seems to improve road feel at the expense of a lazier response [less twitchy to some]. The summer tires also improved some road feel. This setup improved the cars steering, but still didn't seem to fix the root cause.

I tried unplugging the power steering electric motor. Anyone that's steered a MINI without a powered rack knows it's quite the arm wrestle, and still, the strange steering feel remained. This rules out the electric motor.

The problem must be in the suspension geometry itself. This is the only thing I can think of!

So here is my call to arms for R56 owners, enthusiasts, and defendants: How can we improve the R56's steering feel?

Here are my proposals:
*get Mini Madness to make tubular chro-mo front control arms just like they have for the R53
*get ALTA to make PSRS's for the R56
*measure and compare the knuckle/arm/strut relationship versus the R53 and change the R56 to be closer to the R53 in arrangement
*come up with another idea that solves the issue

I hope you guys have some good ideas! If we can get this figured out I just might be swayed to get another R56! I still love the engine, fuel economy, and wonderful interior.

Cheers,
Ryan

 

Did you get an alignment after the springs? Lowering it would give you more toe in which may increase vagueness.

I'm running stock sport springs but had it aligned for auto-x with 1/16 toe out, max - camber in the front(about-.6), took out camber in the rear to -.4 and 0 toe. The steering is light and eager to turn. It does want to follow cracks sometimes and you have to stay on top of it, but it's not what I would call vague.

 

I still can't help but think that the issue lies in the electric-assist. The way the ECU transmit info from the wheels to the stearing wheel is the weak-link IMO. But it doesn't have to be. There are a number of top-of-the-line performance cars that have electric assist with multiple "steering feal" settings to choose from.

Somthing like a "rumble pack" on a Playstation controller, it seems the car tries to simulate little variations in the wheels rotation and grip to the driver through the steering wheel. You can artificially creat some of this feedback, too. I've been in a couple slow speed scenarios where the ECU is trying to give feedback when it's not really due. A perfect example is slow speed manuvers (particularly in reverse)... when one wheel is on gravel (or lately ice) and the other has traction. The steering wheel will give a little shutter trying to figure out if its going to give you feedback (and resistence) like its gripping/sticking... or it goes light and opens up easy like you're slipping. You can actually feel it give a little shudder. Try it.

I'm guessing that completely disconnecting the electric-assist puts so much weight on the wheel that any sensitivity gained is virtually impossible to feel through the effort necessory to steer the car.

Aside from a kit that totally reverse-enginiers a hydralic assist sytem, I would guess ECU tuning to clean up some of the computer's "confusion". I don't know. Interesting to see what everyone thinks, though.

As far as hardware... fully adjustable camber/caster plates?

(PS - What are PSRS's?)

 

Yes, and I said that lowering it improved the feel.


--->msh441: I unplugged the electric motor and the numb feel didn't get any better. While I agree the electric motor is often "hunting" for what it thinks is the correct boost level, I think we're seeing two separate issues here: electric motor assist and physical geometry issues.

I wonder if more caster or more kick-up would help? I also wonder how the roll center is from the R53.

 

Interesting, I'm definitely gonna try that out.

PSRS stands for Positive Steering Response System. ALTA makes one for the R53 but no word yet on if they plan to offer it for the R56. Basically it's supposed to increase steering response; especially under braking and acceleration. Puts one in better overall control of the car.

 

Unfortunately I've spent so little time in an R53, I don't really have a good comparison. Also with 2 active young kids, I haven't really had very much time to climb under the R56 and see how the steering is put together. I can make a comparison between my previous 2002 WRX steering since it's the car I most recently had and I tried several steering changes.

The WRX progressed from sloppy and overboosted steering to a notch above acceptable (a big jump, but still not as tight as my R56 IMO).
1. Addition of an Anti-lift kit (similar to the Perrin PSRS I believe) - This made a nice difference, primarily by increasing caster.
2. Alignment change to add more toe out. 1/6 turn on a tie rod can make a nice difference in initial turn-in crispness. I still stayed within the factory specs, just close to the limit of acceptable toe out. On the WRX, 1/6 turn on a tie rod gives ~0.1 degree toe in or out. The Mini is probably somewhere in the ball park of 0.1 degree too.
3. Rack bushings - I changed from the squishy rubber ones to urethane. This was a night and day difference on the WRX. I don't know if the Mini has anything like this or if the rack is directly mounted.

Maybe the steering coupler on the Mini is the cause of some loss of steering feel ???

-JL

 

Good recommendations jlevy! Also, I sent you a PM back, feel free to post it if you feel it'll help the thread.

The ALTA PSRS's for the R53 can be installed to increase caster, anti-dive, or a little of both. Increasing caster helps give the car a firmer on-center feel and more weight through corners. This may help override the wandering electric motor assist. Increasing anti-dive does not help steering feel, but it does keep body motions in check during hard accel and decel.

Keep up the good ideas!

 

Try adjustable dampers and keep the rear from in check under braking and the rear toe will better in kept in line.

run 16" wheels and a stiffer walled tire like a RA1 or a R888, you will get better feed back then street tires with 18". 16" wheels will respond faster, with a stiffer wall so will the tire.

The car has far less weight with the Sport button off, but not any less feed back/or more.

run 1/8 total toe out in the front. zero toe in the rear.

 

No Bhatch, you're missing the whole point. I ran the R56 with Hoosier R6's on the racetrack; the car feels excellent at the limit on race tires. The steering feel just cruising down the road [surface roads or interstate or Dragon] is crap compared to at-limit feel.

The steering feel has nothing to do with the rear end getting squirrelly under braking, which IMO is not a problem with the R56.

The sport button adds more artificial feedback, which makes the whole road feel problem even worse. After one run on the Dragon I parked the car because the steering left me with zero confidence.

 

on the R56 I THINK (not know) that the PSRS is the same. Let me try to ask Jeff for sure. Be back when I know!

Adam

 

Ok checked with Jeff. They are the same!I will update our website soon!

Thanks!

 

Like Adam said, the control arm bushings are the same R50/53 to R56 and i am guessing they will be the same on the R55 and R57 to come. i can say for sure the stock bushings are crap and tend to blow out fin 30 to 60 thousand miles and by 70 or 80 thousand miles can be dried out and ready to fall apart. the PSRS is a nice system and can give a lot of life back to the car.

an R56 idea. is it in the pump? maybe a retro fit would be in order.

 

Retrofitting the R53's steering rack and hydraulic setup is certainly a good idea, though the different subframe may pose an issue with fitment, not sure.

That's GREAT news the ALTA PSRS's will fit the R56. Chad or Adam, you need to scoop up a customer's R56 for testing! My recommendation would be to try them out on full caster addition; that should definitely help the steering feel! The reduction in squishy rubber may reduce some torque steer too.

 

yes...the Whiteline ALK is an excellent piece. I believe the PSRS was a copy of it...improving a few things (Whiteline had some QA issues if I remember right...it's been awhile). We put some Whiteline Group 4's on an STI (same as KW Version 2) and did the ALK....definitely livened up steering feel.

Personally, I'd prefer a PU bushing to a solid PSRS, but I haven't seen one yet (not that I've looked to be honest).

 

I say just cut the tub and drop it on a purpose built frame and walla there you go problem solved .Having had our car for less than a week I haven't run into anthing like what has been said but then again I haven't had it at a track at speed to see how it handles either. Technology can be good most of the time but what I'm getting from this thread that this is not one of those times.

 

Bavarian Autosport sells a urethane front control arm bushing that is offset to add caster.

Unfortunately, their site doesn't easily allow direct links to products... go to http://www.bavauto.com/ and follow the bouncing ball (pick the car, front suspension, control arms)


I have them on my Cooper, and they work well. It increased the steering weight a little. I forget how much caster it added, but I did put that number in a post somewhere here on nam, so a search should find it.

 

I bet the PSRS with some camber plates would rock!

I'm pretty happy with my steering.... But it can always be improved.

 

did these have to be pressed in? if so, cheap mod, expensive install which is normally the case with bushings

 

yes

 

Ballpark $$$ figure?

 

Dropping the subframe on the R56 would probably be even more of a hassle than the R53, as you have to lower the exhaust too. Yuk.

Nevertheless, the Bav Auto offset bushings are an idea, though from me using the solid bearings on my Mini-Madness front control arms, the solid bearing of the ALTA PSRS would be in my future on an R56. Solid is just SOOOOO much more precise, and the Madness ones are much less noisy than I expected. Certainly not OEM quiet, but I'm a glutton for rough-n-tumble at the benefit of flawless steering and handling.

 

The BA units do look nice. but i like the way the PSRS actually have a ball and pivot like feel for easy suspension travel. and really for another $70 bucks i think they are better buy, since you still have to do the same work (lots of work) to do the install. i have had the Alta PSRS on my car for a while now and really like the way to work on the street and the track.

 

...now we just have to get a donor R56 to play with and do the PSRS swap!

 

I'm sure the willing doner issue isn't the problem. It where the willing doner is located reletive to other interested parties!

 

Get the R53 and get your feel back!!!!!