Are those the TD Pro Race 1.2's clearcoated?!?!? That looks awesome...kind of like m7's black chrome. BTW what brake kit is that?

Thanks,
Steve

 

Those are the ones black rotors after the a day of use.. As you can tell most of the black goes away where the pad hits. they are the 12.2 rotors with the 4piston cailbers. I have an autocross event in two weeks I will tell you how they do.

 

anyone ever try these out?

 

Top of the line "cross-drilled" rotors are no longer drilled. The holes are forged right into the rotor leaving the rotor entirely stress relieved. May or may not be the case on these rotors.

 

Bunk.

I've researched this myth for over five years. Nobody now or in the past has and proof of any manufacture producing rotors with holes in them in the casting process.

To back it up, I still have a (now) $500 bounty on anyone who can produce proof of their existence. Would you wish to take a crack at it?

 

Technically you are correct. The drilling occurs just after the forging process (not casting) and done while the rotor is still hot so that the stresses are relieved during the cool down. I am only aware of one company that does this. Zimmerman produces the rotors for the top end Porsche's and BMWs. They may also supply Ferrari.

All the others retro drill the rotors at ambient temperatures after the forging process.

 

Zimmerman was discussed at length in the first review a few years ago. A nice part and they do provide a better support around the hole that appears to roll the inner portion of the hole whereas any fully drilled rotor has a chamfer only on the outer two surfaces.

When contacted about all this, after some pushing and shoving, they confessed that the actual 'hole' was drilled and not produced in the casting process.

I do remain open minded on this topic and I'm still willing to pay to see the raw castings, molds or plugs. Nevertheless I believe a "rotor with holes cast in it" is a great internet rumor and not fact. There's a great (long) thread on this topic on Corner Carvers if anyone wants to read it all. Cool pics too.

 

Did you see the last few posts right before yours?

 

email from Porsche today:

"Dear Mr H****,

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars North America with an inquiry regarding the Porsche GT2 Rotors. We have confirmed for you that the rotors are forged with the holes already in them - they are no longer "drilled". We hope you will find this information helpful. If you require any additional support, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-Porsche option 3 or in reply to this message.

Kind Regards,
Caitlin King
The Porsche Contact Center
1-800-PORSCHE (1-800-767-7243)"

Toddtce,
You can confirm this information with Porsche. I'll PM you with my mailing address where you can send your check. I will donate the entire amount to the Washington Animal Rescue League.

 

it tells you that the black wears off on the pad section

 

I had some cross drilled/slotted rotors from Outmotoring on my R50 for about two years (they were still on when I traded it in). I never had an issue with them. Granted, it was DD and not a track car.

 

While I appreciate your intended use of the funds this doesn't really prove much. And apparently Mr. King is not up to par on his own information as perhaps he should be.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...s/?gtabindex=4
Click "BRAKE discs". Note Pp 5. While it may be true that their composite rotors are produced in such a manner clearly their iron rotors are not now, not to my knowledge (and those far more in the know than me) have ever been. Having picked up broken parts personally on the track after events there's no question of how they were produced.

If you have an email contact for Mr. King and he can produce proof of such production (in iron as this is what we've been talking about for years, not carbon or other exotics in one-off nature- common, customer available parts) I'll be happy to contact him for any production information he can supply. Know that over the past few years we've had discussions with Shaw, (sp?) Brembo, and others who have or do produce rotors for Porsche and it's be rebuffed.

For the record, my personal believe is that if such parts were produced one would clearly market this as superior for all the reasons one could come up with and hype them as clearly the preferred production. Yet the company does the opposite by promoting cross drilled rotors as standard? Something doesn't add up.

Let's dig a bit and see what Mr. King can produce for factual information other than over a phone. I'll be happy to ask him why his info runs fully counter to their own literature and that he put me in touch with higher ups. If we can show any proof via a raw casting, mold or otherwise that can substantiate his claim I'm all over it.

 

As a quick follow up, I note that he references GT2

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...turesandspecs/

First, it's only available with ceramic discs. Not iron.
Secondly it makes no mention of hole production in them as done on the iron. I'd still be skeptical on carbon as well but it's beyond the scope of what we've been discussing for years.

Because we've been discussing "common man" iron parts for so many years and granted Carbon and Ceramics are more available now than before and because I do appreciate your efforts I'll agree to make a $100 donation on your behalf to the Animal Welfare League. (having lost one of my dogs two days ago I can appreciate that as much as anyone)

If you want to pursue the iron issue with Mr. King to a greater extent I'm good with that as well.

*And just so nobody feels I'm dodging the issue you can read the entire first bounty and related thread about all this here:
http://www.corner-carvers.com/forums...drilled+rotors from 4yrs ago. It has always been about conventional, production rotors of iron materials not exotics.

** And actually there are some others putting up funds to this as well in that thread so it's not a lost cause. I think it's closer to $750 now.

 

toddtce,
If Porsche's response was in reference to the ceramic rotor, I agree that it is well beyond the scope of your "bounty" and no need to make that donation unless you are otherwise so inclined.

Back to the issue: it was my understanding that the ceramic rotors were optional, even on the GT2. And the Porsche rep's reference to "forging" does not apply to ceramics or carbon. The term, however, may have been misused. As you suggest, a lot more digging is required. I will keep you posted.

 

The ceramic rotors are standard on the GT2(for $200k I would hope I was getting the best). The GT2 and the Cayenne Turbo S are the only models that PCCB comes standard on.

 

I looked up the data on the GT2 and it's shown only with Ceramics. (yea I agree for that price...you should get spares!)

The base 911 and other models clearly reference "cross drilled rotors". And of course iron. (with some offering Ceramics as an option)

What's difficult for me is that her (sorry about that) comments are equally or more confusing. She should know the GT2 doesn't come with forged rotors- unless this is a new term for such parts. Forged Ceramic? Ceramic Forgings?? Add to that, she's an information rep of sorts, does she have the knowledge of this in as much detail as we're asking? If so then I'd think she'd have caught her comments on the GT2 parts without question.

Chase her up the food chain some more and see if she can put you in touch with an engineer directly who can forward more definitive information. "Do the raw casting have complete through holes when released from the molds?" "If so can you show us one or a pic of the mold/plug to produce it?" "I believe this would be a very intense mold, can you explain?" "If the holes are fully cast then why is the presence of machining still evident inside the holes post surface finishing and wouldn't that negate the benefits of grain structure and add stress risers again?" You get the idea.

I certainly cannot prove they don't exist. Only that all the parts I've seen to date and industry expert I've spoken with say 'no'. I'm willing to pay someone to show me.


*I will shoot you a check for $100 for your four legged cause anyhow for the good intentions and continued interest!

 

Thanks, but they were listed as "coming soon" when I started this thread in July of 2008

 

I would tend to agree with you that it doesn't make sense to machine or chamfer the edge of a forged hole. That would defeat the purpose of forging that hole in the first place. I'll follow up with them on Friday.

BTW: here's where the money is going and I will match your $100: www.warl.org The kitties and doggies will appreciate it. THANKS!

 

I see that someone is still pursuing this whole "cast with holes in them" format.

Money is still on the table and I'm still looking or definitive proof of their existence and how they are made. Not some BS marketing angle or 'my buddy who used to work for ....under a cloak of death told me...' but hard, real world, simple minded PROOF.

SHOW ME THE REAL DEAL.