1st post and apologizing in advance...

I've read through as many of the relevant posts as I could in order to try to do my own homework, but I still have some (probably) basic questions. I have learned a lot, however, from reading the posts -- lot of great info out there.

I have a stock 08 MC with 15" wheels. Obviously I'm not looking to take it to the track, or I would have bought MCS instead (I will do that next time, however.)

Originally, my sole mod idea was to add a rear sway bar. I was thrilled when I first got my MC because it seemed like a go-cart compared to everything else I've ever driven which heel over in turns like a beautyrest on wheels. But in 2 years of driving, I'm suddenly very aware of body roll in the corners and am starting to see much more room for improvement.

In reading the posts, however, I also started to get the idea that I could also improve on the stock suspension and improve the looks by lowering it.

I don't want to invest a lot of money modding a stock MC, so I was thinking the H&R Touring Cup suspension kit and a 19mm rear sway bar.

It's also nearly time for new tires, and I will be replacing the bicycle-width 175/65/15 with 195/60/15 for very-nearly the same overall tire diameter with a little more rubber touching the road.

I think I understand the difference in coilovers and the spring/strut kit I'm proposing. I'm only looking for modest lowering and the possibility of improving the quality of my daily commute.

1) Am I correct in assuming that I shouldn't expect any rubbing problems even with 195/60/15 since that's still far more narrow than what many of you are running?

2) Do you still have to trim the bumper stops(?) with the touring cup kit to keep them from bottoming out? I'm going to have a shop do any work, so would they know this, or do I need to point it out to them?

3) Any problems I haven't considered? Is there even a point to lowering with rubbery 15" wheels? Anything else that should be added that I've omitted?

Thanks for your time. I know I'm long-winded....

David

 

David,

Welcome to the madness....

It doesn't matter if it's a justacooper or a full blown JCW. The car is a blast to drive and I've had my azz handed to me at the track before by justacooper.

I can't help you on the tire selection though I can't see an extra 10mm on either side of the rim worth of tire making a difference. (I went from 205's to 225's) Usually there's enough room for an upgrade. Just make sure you pick the right ratio to keep you sidewall the same so you don't change your speedometer.


My suggestion is to go with a set of NM springs The springs are VERY reasonably priced but are excellent springs. I was turned onto them by a fellow member over a year ago and I know at least 4 people that have bought these same springs with the exact same satisified results.

I mention these for several reasons.

1) They are inexpensive and if anyone here knows anything about me, my decisions to put something on my car aren't driven by price. They're simply a great product.

2) They lower the car the perfect amount. (regardless if it's a justa or MCS) I personally think HR's ride too rough (just my opinion) and JCW springs don't lower the car enough.

3) They make the car handle 100 times better yet still ride like stock...

4) Last but not least, they are direct replacement, no cutting, no trimming, no squeaking, clunking or wierd noises that I see so many posts of.

Obviously I'm putting my money where my mouth is because I track the car at most a dozen times a year. The NM springs are great but I need a bit more on the track.

After looking at different companies, different setups, coilovers, springs, struts, blah, blah, blah, I decided to keep my NM springs and buy a set of lowered Bilstein shocks.

HTH's,

Mark

 

Shocks first! The OEM shocks are terrible. Yea, it makes it handle like a go-cart. Carts have no suspension and are unsuitable for street use, just like an S with stock shocks. I am happy with my Bilstein HD's on stock springs. THis is not just the ride or handling. it is a critical safety issue. When you hit a bump in a corner, the stock shocks may bounce you so far in the air you loose control. Jumping a foot sideways in not a happy thing on the street. The same corners and bumps with the HD's just " wiggle" at about 5 MPH higher. It is that big a difference.

Look at the two threads on "weird vibration". Make up your mind if you really need lowered springs. You don't for street handling. Only to "look good". If this issue were solved, I would put on NM or H&R's.

I would go ahead and spend the bucks to put camber plates in the front when I did the shocks. Saves the pain or labor cost. It should be free if done at the same time. Play with the camber before you decide you really need the larger rear bar. The camber may reduce the understeer enough for you. If you have not had professional training on a track, I would not recommend reducing the oversteer too much. It is easier to manage a surprise when you are still going forwards. This is why all production cars plow like a pig. Safer. AFTER a few track days, you will surely want to shift it more neutral to the range where your right foot controls under or over steer.

If I were to put on the rear bar, I would replace all 4 rear link rods at the same time to reduce labor costs.

Your 15 inch rims will allow quicker acceleration, quicker breaking, and better bump handling . Big rims are for show, not go. They have less rotational mass.


Supporting Orange, Yup, many a super car has been stomped by a better driver. Got a grand to spend on making your race car go faster? A trick part may buy you .1 second. Lessons several seconds.

 

HEY, I didn't say he was a better driver, I just said I had my azz handed to me.

I think it was me... yeah, that's it, I was allowing him to blow my doors off because... I, uh, er, uh, felt sorry for his "justacooper"... yeah, that's it... I was feelin' sorry for him.



Seriously, I'm with TVR, a good driver will run circles around you regardless if it's justacooper. Perfect example, if you ever get to go to a track, watch a bone stock Miata run circles around much more track prepped cars. You don't need HP or handling (within reason) you need skill.

Mark

 

Thanks, guys. Really good info and I appreciate you both sharing your knowledge.

1) Completely agree on the stock shock problem (well, at least I have experienced what you mention although I didn't know until you just told me that the cause was the shocks.) There is a stretch of road on my normal commute that must be washboarded just enough as you approach the intersection where I have to go slower than most other cars because I've had the car unweight enough to skip under braking. That then triggers the anti-lock braking and (I think) makes matters worse because it suddenly seems like the braking becomes much less effective -- almost as if I let off the brakes myself.

2) Good point on the weird vibration issue. The lowering for me was going to be a purely cosmetic benefit, and I certainly would rather skip that option than have the chance of getting this issue by something I decided to change for looks only. It sounds like a lot of people don't have this problem (or haven't said anything), but at least several people do, and the fact that the collective expertise of the entire NAM doesn't exactly know the root cause is reason enough for me to forget this.

3) I tried to research camber plates on this site and my head nearly exploded from information overload. Do you have a recommendation? It sounded like the IE fixed plates would give me what I needed, but I was lost regarding the noise issue

4) Another good point on the driving issue. Since I have no track experience whatsoever, greatly changing my entire suspension performance could give me more of a surprise than I would like. I tried to go to a Mini Driving course a couple years ago, but they cancelled the appearance in the city which was closest to me. I still would like to get some experience/instruction, but I don't know where I would need to look for Dallas area?

5) I may not be reading the Bilstein application guide correctly, but it only shows an application for the original and Gen 1 Coopers? I guess their website is not up to date since I followed another thread to allshocks.com and found HDs for Gen 2?

Thanks again!
David

 

I lowered my R56 on springs right after delivery back in October 2007 and kept the stock 15's. Later swapping the stockers for R98's. The handling was MUCH better over stock with the springs although not as much as with a set of coilovers unfortunately there weren't any on the market for an R56 yet at the time. I still had some wheelgap with the springs but not nearly as bad as in stock form. It's a MINI regardless of what engine's under the hood and just as capable in the handling dept.

 

100% agree with what TVR and orangecrush have said. (except for the point made that lowering won't really help handling. Simply lowering the centre of gravity will help the handling, not to mention the added roll stiffness and increased camber angles, etc.)

camber plates are a MUST, well before a rear swaybar. Go for bilstein sport shocks and IE fixed plates if money is an issue. Otherwise go for the Vorshlag adjustables. And I hear the NM springs are amazing. So too are the TSW springs, but they don't offer quite as much a drop as the NMs. The fact that you have 15 inch rims or a justa is irrelevant, lowering, changing shocks and adding front neg camber will provide a HUGE difference.

Motor on!