So since I'm doing my Bilsteins tomorrow, i'm revisiting my other suspension issues.

It seems to be deduced that I started getting a wallowing effect of my car handling like a boat after swapping my rear lower control arms for aftermarket adjustable ones (ALTA). Before and after alignment, even upgraded rear sway bar two months later to no avail. I wasn't going to throw the stock ones back on and pay another 75$ for another alignment just yet, since I planned on getting rid of my stock struts/shocks for upgraded bilsteins anyways, so I was going to do it all together.

I'm curious though, when we did the driver side RCA, after taking the car off the jackstand, the car sat up like an SUV with monsterous wheel gap (talking a good 6 inches). Had no idea why... but then when we lowered the ebrake, it all squatted back down. Why would the e-brake have any influence on the car being jacked up after swapping the control arm? The rear wheel does not spin while in the air, and even if it does rotate slightly, its not more than a few degrees. When lowered the ebrake, the car has to roll about a good 30 degrees for it to sit back down at normal ride height. Any ideas?

Looking back at my brother's A4 when he installed H&R lowering springs (koni yellows were already on there), the car sat at stock height. A week later he went back, loosened the control arm bolts in the air, then lowered the car and loaded the control arms, then tightened the bolts. His car then sat properly dropped on the H&R's at 1" lower than stock.

I know the control arms are all about the geometry of the suspension, but, maybe I had my adjustable lowers too long, and slid all the way over on the slotted bolt hole closest to the wheel? When installing I had the control arm tightened before loading them. Should I have the slotted bolt hole adjusted during camber alignment in the rear, or adjustment of the length of the lower control arm? I could see this making a slight difference.

So questions:
1. Why would swapping the rear lower control arm affect the e-brake holding the rear of the car up after jacking the car up and releasing back onto the ground (still happens everytime now too, btw).

2. Install of the RCA should have bolts tightened prior to loading (lowering) the car, correct? (tightened in the air)

3. How should the slotted bolt hole (closest to the wheel on the lower RCA) be positioned for install?

4. Should the slotted bolt hole or the length of the control arm be adjusted during an alignment?

5. Other input?

I'm planning on putting the bilsteins on, and if I still get the rocking/wallowing of the car in lateral shifts of the car @ 50+ mph, I'll swap back to the stock control arms before getting an alignment.

 

1. It's normal for it to stand in the air before you release the ebrake. It's just due to the crazy chamber change as it lowers. I'm on air and I can't lower my rear with out letting off the ebrake.
2. Any suspension bolts should be tightened before lowering.
3. Let the alignment tech figure that out.
4. You can use either to make chamber adjustments, but the adjusting the length of the arm will give you more travel if you max out the slotted bolt.

Could you describe this wallowing a bit more? Just know that our cars come with a pretty sh!tty suspension to begin with. Riding on lowering springs with stock struts will only suck worse. I'm not saying you should drop close to $4K on an air-ride system like me, but a nice set of adjustable struts will make it feel like you're in a totally different car.

 

In a slalom, turning the wheel left makes the car roll right, then turning the wheel right makes the car roll back to the left, then straightening the wheel will straighten the car out. The wallowing effect I was talking about is when I straighten the wheel out, the car rolls back to the right as though I turned the wheel left again, then straightens out. Yes, its supposed to dampen itself out, but this was a little too violent for even the slightent slalom movements of the wheel. It can also be described like (for those who have driven a rwd car), the feeling right before the rear breaks loose in a fish tail. In other words, the wallowing is more apparent/feels like the rear of the car is being thrown around. However, the grip is still there and its not about to break loose, as I've pushed it hard enough to test the safety limits of this wallowing.

Sweeping turns on the highway, or say passing a car on the left, turning the wheel left to get into the left lane, accelerating and getting back into the right lane after passing, the car felt like it was rolling to the side excessively, almost to the point where it was hard to control. Or, driving a boxtruck at 90 and making a tight turn. Scottab had driven the car too and felt the same behavior.

Swapping out to the bilsteins has helped this problem, but its still apparent slightly. Its more masked now with the much better damping of the suspension, but I'm still left to believe its the rear control arms, as these were swapped out right before I started experiencing this.

Yes, tirepressure has been played around with, alignment has been done and in spec, etc etc. Sway bar has been upgraded (after experiencing this, which also helped mask it, but still there). At this point if its not the steering rack (which i don't believe, as the rolling is more apparent in the REAR of the car), im led to believe its the control arms.

 

What you're experiencing is oversteer. You have to understand that our wheel base is VERY short and that combined with a stiff RSB will give you that wallowing. Trust me, this is you issue, you just didn't pick up on it before. It's not really an issue, just a product of the situation. You need to be on your tippy toes in quick maneuvers. Some people prefer this, some don't. I totalled my Jetta GLI because it tail-whipped out of control due to my RSB being in at the stiffest setting (not to mention I was young and stupid). An upgraded front swaybar will alleviate your issue, but then again it will make the car more neutral so it's up to your preference.

Remember,
short wheelbase + RSB + stiff suspension = a lot of "oh Sh!!!t" situations.

 

I think he's right, that you have your rear bar set too stiff.

Either that or you have a bad shock, but that's easy enough to check....

I think the car should be at normal ride height before you do the final tighten on the suspension bolts, at least those that act on a rubber or poly bushing.

 

In theory yes, but unless you have a canal to work from, how can you reach any of those bolts? Aftermarket RCA's have spherical bearings anyway. Good point though!

 

Tintman, while I respect your knowledge about suspension, I dont think we're connecting on what I was describing vs what you are suspecting. Having learned to drive on a light front engine rwd car, in new england, I'm very familiar with the concept and feeling of oversteer. What was happening in the car was for sure not oversteer.

I should point out that the RSB was bought to try to alleviate the wallowing situation, which helped neutralize it some. The RSB is indeed on the stiffest setting (19mm), and I feel the lift off oversteer from that around corners.

When I "test" the car for this behavior, I am doing it at 60mph on the highway, within my own lane (with no other cars around). This relates to a mere 5-10 degrees turn of the wheel in each direction, literally just jerking the wheel left and right, and it will end up swaying once more after straightening out the wheel. If I was getting oversteer from this non agressive maneuver, my car would have been spinning out (or at least majorly fishtailing) in hard corners I take. The car still holds grip very well, and doesn't toss out (unless its lift off oversteer, it'll give a slight amount).

My own analysis of this has been so:
The time I did my rear control arm swap, the car hadn't been jacked up off the ground (a la suspension fully extended) since I swapped the winter wheels back to my summer set up (about 5 months prior). Since I was lowered 1.25", on stock struts, the stock shocks and struts were always riding partially compressed at static ride height. Thus, settling for 5 months, then being jacked up fully extending the rear shocks, I believe was enough to allow the shock to finally "give out". I know shocks do not blow in an instant and it happens gradually overtime.. but a seal may have been created at the piston length it sat at for those 5 months (and lowered for 1.5 yrs total).
Maybe this isn't exactly how it happened, but in the end I believe it was a blown shock or front strut, which caused damping abilities to be diminished.
So while the control arms may have had nothing to do with it, the install process of it may have.

Its definitely something that is VERY noticeable, and not just that I didn't pick up on it before. Again, I think there was a misunderstanding of when I experienced the problem and what the RSB had to do with it and when.
This was more of a body roll than a lateral shift feeling (lack of damping vs oversteer).

With the bilsteins the behavior is MUCH better. I haven't realigned yet since the bilsteins I finished on Friday, so I will be able to tell afterwards whether the problem still exists or not. At this point it may only be left in my mind, as it is normal for a car to have a small bit of damping (aka body roll in the opposite direction when straightening out a car), and the slightest feeling that I am now feeling, I am automatically connecting to the problem before.

I should also throw in that the oem sport struts/shocks are definitely blown. One still seems o-k, but is definitely on its way out. The others, effortlessly extend/compress by hand. I know the stock shocks don't have a very high damping coefficient, but it should be greater than what I feel.

Also, along with ScottAB, a few other non mini friends also drove/rode in the car and experienced what I am tryying to describe here. Their reactions were "woah" when it happened, as they knew something felt off too. This includes track and auto-x enthusiasts with fwd & rwd cars.

 

Well blown struts can definitely leave you wobbling around on the highway. Hopefully the new struts have helped and it's just in your head now. How much compression travel do you have in the rear from ride height?