Sorry im a rookie when it comes to mods.
1. does it really help with handling by cambering the front? Or is it just for style? (i'm a mountain driver, any extra better handling i can get i'll take it.)
2. doesn't it wear out the tires faster? and uneven?
3. Do you need to change your suspension? or can you leave it stock?
4. What is bear camber? not sure if i spelled it right.
5. what about the back?
6. if i were to get a strut brace for the front before cambering would i have to get a different one after?
7. in your eyes, who makes the best camber plates?
8. what about you? do you have them? how much camber? any pics?
Thanks for dealling with me on this one.
Derek

 

1. Yes it helps... However, for the street I would say it's wholly unnecessary. If you did any autocrossing or track work, it's definitely a good investment. The only other reason would be if you installed lowering springs that really mess with the camber OR if coilovers. Crisper turn-in, better grip in the corners.

2. Yes, it can increase tire wear, especially in the front. It's important to rotate your tires more often if you add negative camber. I rotate my track wheels every other event.

3. No, you don't need to change a thing. IMHO, if you're going to put camber plates in the front, you should also put adjustable arms in the rear (at least the lowers) so you can dial the car in. If you dial in a sweet alignment, you should also plan on possibly dialing out some rear swaybar if you already have an aftermarket one.

4. I have no idea.

5. Yes, negative camber in the back is also helpful, more so if you have negative camber in the front. The back should be roughly 1 degree less than the front (e.g. front set at -2, rear should be -1).

6. No, most will work with camber plates.

7. Ireland Engineering's street/race plates are by far the best bang-for-the-buck. Ireland says their plates will work with a strut brace. You can pay a heck of a lot more for camber plates and not get any more for the difference in price. The bonus with the Ireland's is that they do NOT change your ride height, either.

8. Yes, I have Ireland's in the front and KMac adjustable camber bushings in the rear. Front is dialed in at -2.2 degrees and rear is set at -1.2. If I didn't autocross or do track events, I wouldn't have installed them, though (again, IMHO, there's no need). There are soooooo many people running camber plates and adjustable arms that literally have no idea why they are running them or what adjusting camber will do for handling...

 

The only point I would add is that, and up to a point, more negative camber can be useful in a non-lowered car with stock springs and dampers. In general, as a car is lowered, less camber is needed - up front and relative to the Mini.

4 above...never heard of that either???

 

Derek,

For background info on suspension tuning see
http://www.southmainauto.com/align.htm
and maybe give Randy Webb at Webbmotorsports.com or Eric at Helix13.com a call.

Adjusting camber is only one aspect of suspension tuning. While it does help, it must be considered along with the "entire suspension package" you are considering.

1. Camber plates by themselves have limited benefit. They do help with cornering but detract from straight line acceleration and braking (especially if negative camber is set to the extremes. For street use only, they are more cosmetic than functional. For track use especially at higher speeds cornering they are very helpful. In Autocross it might help depending on the course design and length and your other upgrades.

2. Yes, tire wear is increased but this can be dealt with reasonably. Just don't go too much more negative than -2.3 degrees and rotate tires alot while watching for wear. Also consider that if you do more toe out in alignment you will wear front tires faster.

3. Suspension is an independent variable. You can use stock parts, lowering springs, for fully adjustable coil overs. They all can work but to varrying degrees and with very different budgets. Obviously the more you upgrade the suspension and the more adjustable it is the more you can fine tune front camber using the plates to assist in overall handling. If you add camber plates and lots of front negative camber to a stock suspension set up, given your driving, can the suspension perform well enough or will it be over taxed for the task?

4. Never heard of this. Where did you hear about it? Ask Randy Webb.

5. The stock MINI comes with between -1.0 and -2.0 degrees negative camber and the newest MINIs allow for a little bit of adjustment. Otherwise to fully adjust the rear camber you'd need lower rear adjustable control arms. You don't want to be excessive in setting rear camber since more negative results in more oversteer. The general range that works is about -1.2 to about -1.6 degrees with about -2.0 to -2.3 degrees in the front. Again, this tends to wear tires more on the inner edges. How much to set camber is not random but based on how the car handles for a given driver on a given road for a given purpose. You can also check tire temperatures to see how evenly the tires are heating up on the inner, outer and middle areas. You want to tune your suspension to get as even wearing on your tires as is possible.

6. A strut brace would be of limited value for most drivers. You really have to drive at the limit to get benefit. It is an independent variable and can be added or removed at any time and will work with various camber plates. You simply bolt it on to the top of the strut tower in most cases.

7. Most owners will tell you that the camber plates they have are "a good choice or the best". Many plates will work and they do have a trade off of price and features. RDR plates and Webb plates are worth a look and very popular as well as the Ireland products. Some allow for only camber adjustment while others allow for caster adjustment as well. More caster is helpful.

8. There are very many threads on various suspension upgrades. I have a very common setup used for track and autocross, driven daily.
Bilstein PSS9 coil overs- adjustable ride height and dampening.
Stock front sway bar
Front BMP strut bar
RDR front camber plates
H-sport rear lower adjustable control arms
Alta adjustable end-links for front and rear swaybars
Maddness adjustable rear swaybar- set to firmest
Various wheels and tires for track, autocross and street use.
Alignment: Front camber -2.3 degrees, Front toe out 1/16"
Rear camber -1.6 degrees, rear toe zero.

For daily use I dial the PSS9 to the softest setting of 9 front and rears.
I have 17x7" lightweight rims and Bridgestone Potenza S-03 tires in 215/45-17 and they all work fine. It is a bit rough and bumpy compared to stock but not as bumpy as with H-sport springs and no coil overs.

On the track and at autocross the car handles very well. You'll benefit greatly by attending driving school.

In fact, before you do any suspension upgrades to your MINI you'd be much better off going to a driving school and learning how to make the most out of your MINI. An instructor driving in a stock MINI probably can keep up or pass a student in a highly modded MINI at most driving schools.

 

i think he means vale camber...as in like in a slope /

 

Great input, thanks, I understand on the 05 MCS, you can adjust the rear camber, what if I set it to -1,2 degrees with stock front, do I get oversteer?

 

There's a bit more to it than that. However, more negative camber up front relative to the rear is a good thing for the Mini. Really, camber should be determined by roll characterisitics so that you can determine the optimum amount of camber up front first. Then, dial in enough neg cmber in the rear to suit your driving needs. If you stand the rear tires up more you'll get a little more oversteer. If you add the maximum amount of camber determined by rear roll characterisitics the back end will be a bit more tidy.

 

i heard some guy talking about it. when i asked him he just looked at me like i was an idiot for not knowing.
Derek

 

Did he mean cross camber?