Oh Yeahh!! I just spoke with Steve. Thank you, Steve. He is moving forward with the re-design of the struts. He is sending over a new set of springs for the front. I'll post more on this as soon as I get them on the car and test them. It will probably be a few days.

For now, here are a few things you can do to the current set up to improve travel.

1) Adjust the lower spring perch up to highest setting possible (topmost threads). This should give you a bit more travel. You might have to adjust ride heigth after doing this.
2) Remove and cut the rubber stopper by about 1/2".
3) Remove and cut the dust boot about 1"-1 1/2" to eliminate some of the bunching and twisting.

Again, this is only a temporary fix until Steve and his team come up with a permanent solution.

....Steve beat me on the post...

 

Conclusions, adjusting the lower perch upwards and adding a taller spring will provide that additional damper travel. I think that a higher rate spring will also help in the situation as it will won't compress as much, however this will also change ride characteristics.

The difference between a 5g and a 6g spring should be noticable, but not jarringly different. And most rear bars have enough adjustment left to keep the balance where we all need it.

Steve is a pretty smart guy, I'm sure he'll figure this out. He is also quite concerned about his clients. So I have faith.

Steve, what can you tell us about the existing bumpstops? Is there an opportunity to use these as part of a dual rate spring?

 

I really want to jump in here and get involved, but too many cooks.....well, you know.....but opinions are a dime a dozen.....so, I can afford 'em and you can all ignore 'em, so.....

Yes, increasing spring rate up front can be countered with more rear bar, but not everyone does a rear bar. If said increase makes the front and rear rates identical, doesn't that make a rear bar a necessary extra cost for the kit?

Let's say you alleviate this by increasing the rear rate as well. If you go up to 6kg front and 7kg rear, that's about 335/390 right? Sounds like a lot of spring for a street MINI.

By the way, what's the spring rate range of the current dampers?


Steve - PLEASE let me know if I can do anything to help.

 

Yah, just like before we are fully prepared to offer replacment parts to all those who had purchased from us in the past. The thing is, we'd need them to inform us, yenno? We can't keep track of where these all go after the distributors get to them.

Like in the past.. we will take care of those gracious enough to entrust us with their Mini's. I always take care of my brethren.

 

Your $.02 is ALWAYS appreciated, the more the merrier. Each of us have our own experiences, some may be completely individual from one another and we don't want to overlook any possibilities that may improve on this situation.

The current spring Rates are 5F/6R.

Going up on the spring rates front and rear would definitely give these a little bit of a kick in the comfort-nuts... so after we alleviate the ride height problem, do you guys feel more comfortable with the 5kg's in front?

We were going to develop a track-version with higher spring rates, but that's gonna be postponed for the moment while we get this ship back on course.

We're increasing the Piston by 30mm, and going with a 180mm spring to compensate. But we're also going to shave what we can off the top of the bottom perch to allow us a few more Millimeters of space. I think I'll be recommending maybe 3-5mm of Pre-Load to people as well.

I really don't want to incorporate the Bump-Stops into a form of suspension due to the fact that they aren't going to be as consistent. If you never hit the Bump-Stops at all, wouldn't that just be a whole lot more effective? Yenno? Anyway, lemme know.

 

"my team" lol... you guys are my team, what are you guys talkin about?!

 

You're increasing both piston length and spring length 30mm. Check my math here.....

I checked the loaded spring length on my fronts (w/ no preload) and they average only about 100mm. They're compressed almost exactly 1/3 by the weight of the car. (brownflyers look even shorter to me)

Put a 180mm spring of the same rate on my car and I assume it will compress at the same rate. So, the extra 30mm spring length will be an extra 20mm loaded while the piston is still 30mm longer.

I assume that's not a problem, eh?

 

i am in on whatever you guys decide to do to remedy the situation. i was starting to question the design of the megans initially as i could not get a consistant setup for auto-x, and now i obviously know the cause. wouldnt have thought to check the damp. clearance because when you spend close to 1,000 dollars on a suspension setup you damn well expect it to work right the first time.

anyways, i think the best solution for this is to either lengthen the piston in the shocks and provide a "slightly" longer and increased spring rate. the only other option is a shorter shock body, a longer piston and a much increased spring.

my main point is, what is the point of a suspension that allows you to adjust ride height without reducing the dampening motion of a strut when the strut is riding 1" away from the bump stops to begin with. all this shows to me is that the whole system was obviously under-engineered, and no one even bothered to check tolerences. this system was just under 1k for me to buy, and it doesnt work as advertised. i am glad brownflyr noticed, because i think a lot of us just took for granted that for that much money things would have been engineered better and worked properly.

I am waiting for a solution to this problem, and i hope i dont lose complete faith in a product that i used to support 100%. i am thankful that now i realize that my harsh front end isnt due to a spring rate rather than an obsene bump stop pounding.

 

Hmmmm...
You can't get something for nothing, ... you get what you pay for, ... are just some of the things that always popped into my head when I heard about these shocks. As even Steve somewhat admits, these are not something that ever seemed to even belong on a Mini in the first place. They are a generic brand that just get basically re-labeled to match their destination.
Another story also now comes to mind when I read this thread. It's the story of when at a tea party an old lady mistakenly put salt in her tea when she of course wanted sugar.
Everyone at the party had a remedy for her to try to take away the salt taste and make it taste like sugar. In trying all these recipes none worked and the tea just tasted worse and worse. Finally a little girls just asked, why don't you just pour a new cup of tea....
That story was told to me when I was about 10 years old and it's amazing how much it's come to play during my long life.
Sounds like Steve might just be able to pour all of you a new cup of tea as I understand it he can provide newly designed internals? I think that switching around springs, changing length, and rates is just going to put you guys at risk on the road and even more so, on the track. Sounds to me that it would be best to go back to factory with some H-sports for now until Megan can resolve the issues with an engineered solution, a new fresh cup of tea so to speak.
My agenda here is NOT to bash a vendor, but is one of concern for those who don't truly understand what they are doing from possibly putting their car and themselves, and others that may be on the track at risk.

 

Yes it is and I would not advise a 390 rear spring for the mini on the street. And yes, a rear bar does cost extra. However, that type of setup is typically more street friendly...I wasn't really thinking of cost, just simple options.

 

thats great to hear. i think that waht onasled has said sounds like a good idea but i dont know if you guys would go to that extent. i think some more r and d should go into this setup. personally i wouldnt mind higher spring rates front and rear as i have a rear bar and am willing to sacrifice some comfort. the roads arent to bad around here. i put the mini away for the winter too. but this is just me. would making the piston and spring longer really have some unknown effects like onasled is implying. it sounds like it would work but ill leave that to the experts. just trying to keep this pot boiling.

 

No, I think making the stroke longer with new internals is what your after. My concern is that some are suggesting just changing the front springs in length and rate. That's where I see problems. In many cars this kind of tinkering might be OK, but the Mini is very sensitive to even the smallest tweak as meb can comment I'm sure. You can't be *****-nilly with this car.

 

ha and preloading the hell out of the front springs. NOT a solution.

 

yes i agree i would want more done than just changing the rate up front. or just changing the springs in general. some change needs to be done to the dampner also as you said. i just bought a set and was about to install them, should i even put them on now or wait till this get resolved????

i really wanted to get my mini all ready for limerock on the 4!!! this sucks. should i just put them on then take em off when replacemeent parts come or whatever is gonna happen??

 

Tis why in one of my above posts I mentioned revalving and changing pistion length/damper body within the same breath. In reality, a longer stroke will affect the damping curve. And here lay an opportunity...

 

anyone have any advice for me?? anyone?!

 

Install these and keep the adjustments to between 10-8 from full hard front and rear - experiment with settings equal front to rear, then 10 rear and 9 front, then 10 rear and 8 front. What rear bar do you have? If is stock you'll be fine, if a 22mm aftermarket set to the softest setting. What are your camber settings?

All the settings above are from full hard


Michael

 

k ill do that. im going to be putting on the webb extreme bar. its sitting on my couch along with control arms and a m7 strut bar. what should i put the bar at? thanks for the help

 

As much as I respect meb, I have to disagree here. Sent you a PM.

Lime Rock is one track that you don't want to be making all sorts of mods to your car for the first time. Putting the Webb bar on is OK, but start nuetral. Of course this all depemds on track conditions also.

 

I'm making the assumption he's been there...or I agree. I ran all last year completely stock.

If you install the bar, the second long line from the end - in other words - the square washer should be tween the second long line and the thrid one to begin. This is ever so slightyl stronger than stock.

 

megan: so whats the chance of a manufacturer buy-back untill we get this problem solved.

 

i second that

and guys sorry if i confused u but im not going to limerock for a track day. im going for the mtts gathering. track days will come later .

 

kurvhugr, you need to make sure that the car's full weight is on the springs and not on the damper. If you don't preload them enough, the weight of the car will be riding on the bump stops and not on the springs. This is why I tried max preload, to see if the springs could support full weight before total compression. And thus, the need for a longer spring. I'll try and take some measurements myself. And please, in my house, everyone can join in at the kitchen. Not to say that this is my house...I just feel at home here on NAM with all of you. THanks for all your help and support.

Don't get me wrong guys, my suggestion for a longer spring and/or higher rate one is for a temporary solution not a permanent one. This was so that you could get some travel from the current set-up (not enough however). As Steve pointed out, the current damper itself provides for very little travel, therefore I would have to agree 100% with Meb and Onasled about a full redesing of the system. By the way Onasled, my parents used to tell me that story also, but they used coffee instead! They never drank tea at home.

 

Ok, disclosure time: I am in no way a suspension expert nor do I purpot to be one, much less on the Mini. I will cede to the experts. I'm adding my $.02 worth just in case somebody had not thought of it.

Now, can somebody answer a question, Steve, Meb, Onasled, anybody:
What are the main differences in 1) Compression Ratio & 2) weight tolerances or any other from a 5kg to a 6kg spring. Is there a common formula that we can apply here? I'm assuming every manufacturer would be different, so I'll limit it to the Mini and more specifically to the Megan's.

 

has anyone talked with megan? anyone know if their making any progress with these.