Urgent help needed for Megan Coilovers… A few days back, I installed a set of Megan Coilovers on my ’06 MCSC following the directions and posts by Meb and others (thanks for all those posts, very helpful). 2 days ago I was driving around and noticed that something wasn’t quite right. My Mini, and I were really getting hammered on sharp bumps. The next morning I performed a simple test. I pushed down on the back end and there was some travel. I did the same on the front end and, wow, no travel other than the tire give. Here is my test and findings:

I removed the front strut and disassemble it to remove the dust boot thus exposing the shock shaft. I then put everything back together (ofcourse except the dust boot) and fully compressed the suspension to see how much travel I really had on the front end. And, Holy Coilovers, Batman!!! There was absolutely no suspension travel. The shock was fully compressed to the stopper. I double checked to make sure the shock was not leaking and no evidence of that found. Furthermore, I then adjusted (raised) the lower spring perch to the highest possible thread settings giving the spring more room to compress before the shock was fully compressed. It actually gave me about ½” clearance on the shock shaft. Still no where close to full travel.

I was on the phone with Steve at Megan Racing and send him all the info including pics of the fully compressed strut (suspension), uncompressed, and adjusted perch fully compressed suspension. Unfortunately he was unable to return my phone call before the end of day yesterday.

I have read other posting on NAM about a harsh ride on the Megan’s and I can only assume that it might be due the lack of travel on the front struts.

Has anybody done any similar testing or has had similar experiences? I’m in desperate need of help.

I believe the solutions to be fairly simple, Megan Racing needs to: 1) Provide a higher spring rate for the Mini, thus not allowing the shock so fully compress, or 2) Develop a new taller spring that, again, will not allow for the shock to fully compress.

Now, keep in mind that I do own a ’06 MCSC and there is about a 175lbs weight difference when compared to the MCS. But even Steve at Megan pointed out, that the weight is mostly at the back of the car. But still, it shouldn’t make such a big difference in suspension travel.

[FONT='Times New Roman']I will try and add the pics in here…..Thanks for all your help!!!!![/FONT]

Here are the pics: First is of the fully loaded, second is of no load, third is of fully loaded with full adjustment to lower perch to topmost threads.

 

your car being a convert should have nothing to do with this.

i would double check and make sure you installed everything properly. i am running these coils on my sunroof'd S and have good suspension travel in the front and rear. nothing like you described.

are you positive you set the upper perches correctly? what it sounds like to me is that you are using the upper perches to adjust rideheight, which would be completely wrong. rasiging and lowering the upper perches to adjust ride height would SUBSTANTIALLY reduce your suspension travel. practically causing it to "ride on the bump stops". you need to set the upper lockin perches with the strut off the car. you want them to just **slightly** compress the spring. the spring should still be able to turn semi-freely. then you adjust the lower mount ( closest to the control arms) by loosening the lowest bottom lock nut (single lock) and then spinnin the ENTIRE shock assembly inside the lower piece.

if that helps, it help. i basically confused myself. but i would bet 10 dollars that says you are using the upper locks to adjust the height. this isnt like a normal coilover, notice no helper springs, yadda.

 

MEB - step in at any time if you agree with me.

also you should never have to touch the upper locking rings (adjustment wise) after you set the initial spring preload of the strut (you can only do this off of the car!!!)

 

I followed Meb's instructions to the 'T'. I'm not using the lower perches to adjust ride height. I was extremely careful not to do this. The additional adjustment I made to the lower perches was to allow the spring to compress further since there was no more room to compress due to it riding on the stoppers. I know exactly what you're talking about with the adjustments and I took a good day to examine the coilovers and undestand their design before mounting them on the car. And as Meb described, I just hand tighten the lower perches to the point of putting resitance on the springs before mounting them.

 

hrm. dunno on that one then. i think the stamping on your springs matches up with the correct ones, i believe. correct me if i am wrong but the num (xxx.xxx.xxx), the middle number should be the spring length in mm. i would confirm that but you could measure the spring to make sure you have the right springs.?

when i go over big bumps the car bounces up and down, so i am fairly sure it is working. the ride is also a bit bouncy where the dempening is set now. i am fairy certain that i have travel unlike yours. could it be the bump stops being the wrong size?

how are you compressing the shock with the wheels off for that compression picture? with a jack?

what is your dampening level set to in the front?

(trying the help the best i can)

 

Thank you defy, I appreciate all the input I can get. I have tried all the settings from full soft to full hard with no difference. That's what brought me to perform the test.

Yes, I was using a jack to do the compression. And you're right, I also thought about the stops being to long and that migh give a bit more travel but you also run the risk of bottoming out the shock and could blow it out.

Have you looked at your travel w/o the dust boot? On a large bump the car will bounce up and down but you will have no downward dampening or compression effect since the car is riding on the stoppers.

 

True, there is not a lot of travel. Mine, on more than occasion, hit the bump stops hard. I think that the Megan bump stops are traditional bump stops, in other words are not intended to work with the springs as dual rate mechanism.

I complimented Megan when these were first installed with regard to the bound quality. But after lots of experience with the Megans, I've changed my opinion; the bound is intially very nice, but the curve does not tighten up enough for the amount of travel we're left with. As a consequence, mine are typically set between 10 and 8 from full hard up front and around 5-6 from full hard at the track so I don't ride on the bumpstops - which happened at Lime Rock a couple weeks ago in the left hander - the car went into a big understeering slide. That's when I decided that setting 5 from full hard was a better thing while participating in a passing anywhere event.

I've been trying to get new replacement dampers from Megan with no luck. So, I made arrangements to go with another setup - a very straightforward kit. With any luck it will be installed within a few weeks.

The Megans still posses some great features others do not. The dampers, however, need work. Rebound, and bound valving in particular, should be reviewed and the damper body should be shortened to allow more travel. This means longer springs etc etc. I'm also not sure how they've been designed to handle track level heat loads. My evaluation is after 15,000 commuting miles and six track days - about 600-700 track miles.

My only advise is to try to cut a part of the bump stop - I did not. I thought about contacting Powerflex to ask about their custom bumpstops. These are designed to work with the spring and damper...the damper needs to contact this type of bump stop to work. But, I'm not a damper engineer, and I'm finding that I really want to drive the thing, I don't want to experiment again for a while. So I canned the idea.

Setting 8 from full hard will more than likely eliminate the problem until the dampers begin to wear. But, at that setting, you'll require a back rub if your streets are like mine...these were never meant to traverse railroad tracks in a mannerly way...setting 8 and railroad tracks will get your attention.

 

[/quote]Setting 8 from full hard will more than likely eliminate the problem until the dampers begin to wear. But, at that setting, you'll require a back rub if your streets are like mine...these were never meant to traverse railroad tracks in a mannerly way...setting 8 and railroad tracks will get your attention.[/quote]

Meb, my back is already hurting just reading your post. And I don't want to be bouncing all over the streets in Nor. Cal. The reason I purchased this set-up was to have better handling and full or close to full suspension travel.

I spoke with another tech at Megan today (Steve was out of the office all day) and after explaining my findings and concerns, he came to the same conclusion. Although he did disclose he was not the Mini expert rather the Honda, Mitsu, expert, he did say that from the info it looked like the spring rate was too low for the mini. He told me that he needed to talk to his supervisor but more than likely they would have to send out a new set of springs. He made me aware that going with a higher spring rate would tighten up the suspension. True, but that's better than having no suspesion travel at all. So, I explained the options I had came up with 1) Springs with a higher rate or 2) Taller springs. Then it hit me. I failed to realize that the Megans have 62.150.05 springs on the front and 62.180.06 at the rear. This means that the rear springs are 30mm and 1kg higher. In theory, I could switch the rear springs to the front and see what happens. I might just do that tomorrow.

On a side note: At this point I'm a bit disappointed with Megan as I placed a number of calls to them in the last 2 days about this issue and as of now, I have not gotten a call back much less a resolution to the issue.:impatient

Update: Steve just emailed me about the issues... I will keep everyone posted...

Is the Megan Vendor around that could help out with this????

 

... sorry meb, but it's good to hear that you are finally dumping the Megans. You know how I feel about those things ..... junk .

 

Don't bother. This will screw up your handling even more.

 

Onasled, so really tell me how you feel? Are you refering to coilovers overall or just the Megans? I'm interested to hear your opinion. What type of set-up do you have?

 

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't mean run with the rear springs up front and the front out back. No, I was simply using it as an additional test to look at the difference in travel length vs the current set up. In such a case (switching springs to run with them) I would have to replace the all springs to keep the same weight ratio on all corners. Is this correct?

 

I think I need to call Steve up as well. The boot on my driver side strut managed to bunch itself up and bind up under the spring. First (before I figured out what it was) it caused some strange sounds and some strange behavior over bumps at slow speeds. I figured it was probably a dead anyway so left it alone and now it's so bound up it's rolling under the spring and coming apart. At least it won't be causing trouble much longer.....

I also have been thinking I'd like to switch to a different spring. Mine look a lot like yours. I know the ideal solution would require a corresponding change in damper and probably the strut body, but that's not going to happen so I figure I'd like to try a longer spring before giving up and moving on.

The things have all the right features, the design just wasn't executed perfectly.

 

Your replacements came in on Monday. Shipping them tomorrow. I'll need your address again though.

Soooooo... we're having suspension travel issues?

This is the first time this is being brough up to me unfortunately. MEB & Kurvhugr, what changes to the front would you like to see? Do you want me to go higher on the piston length? If so would you want to keep the shock the same height or shorten it a bit to compensate? We can probably go up to a 165mm or 180mm spring, but that may be a little much. I have on the shelves some 150mm-6Kg Springs, I think I may also have some 165mm springs, but I don't know the spring rates right off the top of my head. Let me know so we can do some experimenting... unless you'd like to change suspension which I'd understand.

We were getting ready to develop a Track-Series suspension setup, however it looks like we should work on the current models first a bit more. What would you like to be seen with the dampening rates?

I'm disappointed in the fact that this is the first time I've been hearing about all of this. I've been out of the office for the last couple of weeks driving all over So Cal... unfortunately at times my job can be a little overwhelming but I try to keep the Mini Cooper community at the top of the list being an owner myself.

The people who spoke on the phone being the "Honda & Mitsu" experts have very minimal experience when it comes to cars... they are warehouse workers who know the basics, but do not have the authority or experience to be answering tech questions. I apologize for any inconvenience that they may of have caused and there will be discussions about protocal in my office come tomorrow morning.

MEB, I apologize for the delay through all of this... I know you were a strong advocate of our suspension and am sorry to hear that you have changed your mind about the quality and performance of our products. I wish you the best of luck in the future for your Mini and would like to thank you for the support you have given us in the past. You certainly are a knowledgable gentleman who is patient and understanding... it was an honor to have worked with you in making improvments to the products.

The longer struts and suspension modifications can happen, if time is allowed. Remember, we had a similar issue in the past with the rear suspension, if the front has to be redesigned then there can and will be replacment shock bodies offered to the public after the design changes are made.

 

That's one of the first things I noticed when I did the install (boot very crammed in) . But because I couldn't see inside the boot, I figured all was well. I believe that a taller spring will cure the problem w/o other modifications other than re-adjusting ride heigth via the lower nut. The 62.180.006 spring that they have on Megans site is 30mm longer (1.125" longer) and it might be sufficient by providing a 3/4" additional damper travel depending on how much it compresses. Like I posted earlier, I will try swaping back springs to front for an additional test on damper/suspension travel.

 

Here's another random comment - they're out there, just scattered around a bit.

Anyway, I love it when a company/rep is willing to jump right in and help.

I'll refrain from answering any of your "what if" questions now though since it's nearly 5am here on the right coast and I'm sure the little gray cells need a few zzzzzz before they'll be ready to produce coherent thought.

 

Very important mistake in my above reply. I mixed up bound and rebound, as I typically do. The Bound valving is a concern.


Also, you can go with a bigger spring rate up front, you simply need to dial in a bit more rear bar. The difference, the back end will not hop around on bumpy tracks.


Greg, wus up man? Where you bean? Lettuce know. I've alwyas bean into vegies...time for a response from Kenchan...


Steve,

Thank you for the follow up and compliment. I'm sure that your professionalism is appreciated by all here as well.

Steve, I would look at anything that increases suspension travel up front. The spring design makes that difficult but not impossible. A shorter damper body? And, can you tell us about the bump stops? These may present you with another possibility. A longer spring will not accomplish much...but I've not had coffee this morning so lets all think about this one. It will simply place the perch lower on the damper body while not affecting the damper's pistion travel - the key part here. And, this assumes that there is still some spring travel left after the damper contacts the bumpstop. If the damper body can be shortened - and appropriately valved for a shorter body - then a longer spring will be necessary. I wouldn't be affraid of trying a few different rates up front. We have 5g now, 6g or even 7g may work as long as the piston speed ramps up enough with respect to bound control. But again, I am not a suspension engineer and dampers are very tricky pieces of equipment. It will not take much to get these wrong. I would alos look very closely at the bumpstops as these can make a huge difference by themselves.

I'll add this too; many of the 'other' spring designs though linear in rate arrange the coils so that they collapse into one another - to a point. This design offers a bit more travel, but is probably expensive? The argument against this design is the spring width limits the amount of negative camber that can be attained. The Megan spring is a straight 2.5" diameter spring and potentially allows much more camber adjustment. Ironically, the Megan perch doesn't allow much more than 2 degrees. Will you consider a different perch design? This may mean we need to grind more strut tower, but what the hell...

Regarding going with another setup...I'm evaluating a few different setups and this one is too good to pass up. This doesn't mean I'm shelving the Megans, I'm not selling them. I'll call you regarding the new cylinders. I'm simply curious about other seups.


Michael

 

i would also like to see the system revised. as i just bought a set. i heard many good things about them from people and all the sudden this comes up. i hope we can get this figured out. now we just need some smart people who know what their talking about. i jknow nothing about suspension. just want it to perform well

 

Steve, I'm glad you're on board. Let me just clarify a few points. And just so you know that I'm a fair individual and not some poser trying to bash someone's reputation, here is my info and please feel free to call me if you have questions about my findings. This is the same info I sent you on an e-mail (steve@meganracing.com) on Tuesday.

Everardo "Ev" Valadez
707-330-5823
Fairfield, Ca.

On Tuesday Aug. 22, 06. I was on the phone with Megan, after explaining my situation they transferred me to the "expert on Mini's" a fellow name Steve (wether that was you or somebody in the wearhouse, I don't know). After some discussion, he gave me his e-mail and I sent all information including pics. Not hearing back from anyone there by the end of day, I proceeded to follow the next logical step and that was to resort to my fellow Mini owners here on NAM for sugestions & support as many people have done in the past. On Wed. 8/23, I placed a number of calls but when I asked for Steve their answer was that Steve was not in the office and was running around town doing some business. I was finally able to speak with someone that was trying to help (reference post above). At the end of the conversation he, again, took my info and was going to speak with a supervisor and would call me back. End of day and nothing again. Just late night yestarday, I get an e-mail from Steve@meganracing.com asking why I had removed the dust boot and I referred him to this thread. As of Today, Aug 24, 10:15am Pacific time, I have not received a return call or e-mail in regards to my issue.

I agree with you that there needs to be some changes in protocol within your company so that information gets passed to the right person and issues can be resolved. But that's neither here nor there, and how your company is run internally is none of my business.

Steve, I don't want this to become a he said/she said forum. I came here for real answers to real problems that I'm having and as a Megan Customer that is all I want.

Having said this, I'm done with this point and will not discuss further. I'm looking for resolutions to my/our issues.

I will call you today to discuss my issues. Or please feel free to call me at the above number.

Again, thanks for stepping up and working with us on this.

On a side note: I believe Megan makes a very good product, other than a few tweeks here and there. But it provides for what I was looking for in a set-up. Specially the shorter damper and ride heigth adjustability w/o sacrificing damper travel. Other systems use stock or close to stock damper length and if you want to lower your car more than the manufacturer's recommendation, that can have significant consequences on ride comfort level. Sorry, this is for another thread.

 

i am looking forward to getting a resolution to this. i looked at mine today and my travel is definitly very very small. i guess i never noticed and just thought it was a stiff spring in the front

 

I agree with Meb about redesigning the system on the long term. However, I'm also looking at a short term solution here as well. I don't want to be running with my front suspension fully compressed. This will cause more problems in the long run, i.e. mushrooming. By adjusting the lower perch as high as possible, it allowed me to see if the spring would fully compress before damper travel was gone and what would happen to damper travel. As evidence by the pictures, The spring didn't fully compress and there was a bit of damper travel. So findings, in the original set up with the lower perch at suggested heigth the damper becomes fully compress before the spring holds the weight of the car, therefore, complete loss of dampening capabilities. Conclusions, adjusting the lower perch upwards and adding a taller spring will provide that additional damper travel. I think that a higher rate spring will also help in the situation as it will won't compress as much, however this will also change ride characteristics.

 

If we increase the length of the spring it won't really accomplish much due to the fact that the shock length remains the same. We are plagued with only 2.25" of suspension travel with the current setup.

We've decided to increase the piston length by 30mm and use a 180mm spring to compensate. However, I was thinking about going up to a 6kg spring. What do you guys think? Let me know so I can get this rolling ASAP. If someone can get the Good Dr. in here to key in on his opinion, tha'd be good.

 

You know what's the kick in the nuts about this all... this is the FIRST and ONLY suspension system that I didn't design for Megan. We trusted someone else to give us the okay with the design and then first the rear suspension started to snap.. and we took a HUGE hit on that... and now this. That's what really steams my veggies!!

That's right.. I said it!

 

are u planning on sending the revised parts out to everyone? or just people with issues. i dont want my suspension travel compromised either. i just bought a set and was planning on installing this week before limerock.

 

it would steam my veggies too!! lolol