so, a couple of months ago I recieved the alta front and rear sway endlinks.

they have since then been installed and I can't say I feel much difference what exactly is their purpose? do you need to purchase a rear and front sway for them to do anything

thanks
justin

 

I put rear ones on my MC with SS+ and I can get around a particular
S-curve on a hill with slightly less understeer (need to lift the throttle at
the beginning of the curve less than before) than before I replaced them.
Since it's a subtle difference, I don't think I'd notice the slight reduction in
body roll putting front and back aftermarket end-links on as much as I could
detect the subtle change in understeer/oversteer balance by doing only the
rears.

 

they're pretty much a waste of money until you do other things to the car. Some sell fixed length ones for weight savings, but the stockers are very light and have plenty of angular range. If you go coil-over, you use these to eliminate preload on the sway bar in conjunction with corner balancing.

By changing overall end-link length, you can induce some subtle changes in effective sway bar stiffness.

Matt

 

What you are experiencing is normal for adding endlinks.

First you need a plan for your upgrading and ask yourself what are you upgrading and why do you need to do that.

Endlinks are part of the suspension system and attach to the ends of each swaybar front and rear. Normally the stock endlinks will work fine for street, autocross and track use but some owners have upgraded the rear sway bar to increase it's stiffness and pushed their cars hard on the track and bent an endlink. It happens but certainly not to all MINIs on the track.

Adjustable endlinks allow for you to set the length of the endlink. This offers little direct performance benefit if you don't upgrade other parts of your suspension. The best use of adjustable endlinks are with adjustable coilovers (springs and shocks where you can adjust ride firmness and ride height). Using Coilovers you can set each front and rear wheel to the height that allows for best balance of weight for performance. Ideally with a front wheel drive car you want the weight of the left front corner added to the right rear corner to equal the weight of the other two corners with you in the car with your helmet. For street use corner balancing is not necessary and typically for street only use adjustable endlinks are not useful.

One option is you can upgrade your rear swaybar to one that is adjustable, set it to the softest setting which is still stiff compared to stock. Remove and sell your adjustable endlinks. Consider lowering springs or upgraded shocks like Koni FSD. Coilovers are expensive. Leave the front swaybar alone for now. No need for a front tower strut bar. Camber in the rear can be adjusted a little with recent MINIs or you can add lower adjustable control arms. Front camber cannot be adjusted unless adding front adjustable or fixed camber plates.

Talk to a MINI tuner vendor about a big plan. Webbmotorsports, Helix13, M7, Outmotoring, Detroituning, EastsideMINI can all be helpful.

 

thanks all

my next step for the mini is the rear sway, im currently bidding on a madness 22mm adjustable rear sway. as far as the koni, I thought about that as the next option but I liked the idea of dropping the car with stiffer lowering springs. I currently like the feel of the car in autox and dont think its a 100% needed to get stiffer shocks. But that would be after the springs if I can find them used

 

Something to think about.
Normally we suggest a 19mm rear sway bar with three adjustable settings for the MC while MCS can use 22mm adjustable bar or stiffer 25mm bar.

The 22mm on the softest setting might be usable but you also might find that it is too stiff. It will depend on your driving style when cornering hard and the rest of your suspension and tires. Most MCS on the street will use the softest 22mm rear bar setting. A stock MC suspension is softer than in the stock MCS.

Lowering springs are possible for you but consider that your stock springs were designed to match your soft stock shocks. Upgrading only the springs will wear out your stock shocks relatively quickly depending on how your drive. Many drivers find about 6 months to 12 months is enough to wear out stock shocks once lowering springs are installed.

Upgraded shocks don't have to be expensive or rough riding. Check out the Koni FSD or talk to Alex@tirerack.com, they carry wheels tires and suspension upgrades for the MINI.

In your case even a stock MCS rear swaybar non adjustable would be an upgrade that is usable.

If you do get a 19mm rear bar (check out Alta) try the softest setting first- it's still quite a bit stiffer than the stock MC rear bar.

 

interesting, I have run a 22mm bar in my ep crx and love it. It brings the cars back end around just enough. I was thinking about the koni kit from tirerack but for the money im not sure if its agressive enough. Being im young a rough ride isnt a problem.

 

also, you mentioned the stock cooper s suspension is stiffer... why not just stick those on the cooper? seems like they would be easy to find cheap?

 

and it's a good start. But if you want a really aggressive suspension, that won't be enough.... But it may be the best in price/performance though...

Matt

 

If you upgraded an MC to Sport suspension plus you'd be getting shocks and springs very close to the stiffness of a stock MCS.

There is nothing wrong with that option and for the relatively lower cost of using stock MCS used parts it's a viable option.

You won't notice much drop in ride height if any but it will be stiffer springs than what you have now.

If you are used to a modified CRX then it is possible that a 22mm rear swaybar set on softest setting and stiffer springs and maybe an upgrade in shocks might work for you.

Rims (17x7) and tires (what size and which ones) also play a very big role in how your suspension works. What do you use now and what are you planning for?

 

Do shocks and springs at the same time, if you can. Taking the suspension apart is a PITA - don't do it twice if you don't have to.

I think the Texas speed works springs sound like a great spring for budget minded autocrossing.

If you have SS+ on your Cooper, you already essentially have the Cooper S suspension.

 

While the front and rear bar take some work, the front strut is 5 bolts, and the rear is only three. That's 16 bolts to get all the struts off. Add in 4 more and you can take the springs off too!

Matt

 

You can get the struts out w/o taking off the wheels? So it's at least 32 bolts

Actually, the rears maybe you can get out with the wheels on, but it'd be extra work just to prove a point ("work" combined with "extra" is not my bag).

Stock springs make it harder, since the bloody things are so long that the front struts are wedged in pretty tight between the upper mount and the knuckle. Doing a shortened spring, where you would actually have room to pull the strut out of the knuckle, would be a lot easier.

 

the 17x7 are just bling right now.

I was using 15" kosei from the crx until I found out the offset was off. For christmas im buying myself some rota slipstreams w/hoosier A6 hopefully

I have the sport package as is, but I thought only the mini cooper s had the sport plus package?

on another note, has anyone messed with different spring rates in the front and back? mix things up a bit?

im planning to run FSP and hopefully build the car so I can drive it competitvely outside of local events. mabye even nationals. I recognize it will take alot but the bare minimum is what im going for

 

How hard is to replace the rear sway bar?

Is that a straight forward "home garage" deal, or a real PITA?

 

it is very simple.

 

Hoosiers are great tires, but they do not last long. Think 10 events or less on a MINI... One of my friends told me that he was getting 20 runs on the S04 Hoosiers on the front of his HS mini.

I have had really good luck with both the V710 and older kumho Victoracer on my Mini, both are quite tolerant of "zero" camber stock class minis.

If these are your first R tires, I'd really think about some Victoracers. They'll probably last you a whole season.

 

The new A6 Hoosiers last longer than the SO4's and MUCH longer than the SO5's. The Kumho's will last even longer.

 

I've ran v700. I wanna go out on the loop and actually say the victoracers were replaced by the v700. its a good tire but im in the market for new things right now.

 

I think you meant "go out on a limb"....

What do you mean when you say "I'm in the market for new things right now"?

Here's what Kumho has released.

1. Victoracer V700
2. Ecsta V700
3. Ecsta V710

The V710 is their best tire to date. Great grip and long wear....but they cost a bit more than the V700's.

 

thanks thats what I meant.

well, im interested in trying out new tires and other parts to find what fits my driving the best. I've never ran a hoosier tire before. But I have heard great things.

so they still do sell the victoracers?:impatient

 

Having more negative front camber will help any tire to wear more evenly.
Stock front camber is usually -0.5 degrees. Add front camber plates and you can run -2 to -2.3 degrees.

If you have used R-compound tires before and done OK then using Hoosiers is OK. Fast wear is the rule with Hoosiers but they offer light weight, good seleciton of tire sizes and high performance if you drive well.

Kumho first came out with the V700 victoracers. These still work fine and offer some traction in the rain when it is a little wet. They aren't as fast but they can wear three times longer than the V710s under the same driving conditions. These are good tires for those that have not used R-compounds before and sometimes are the only tires that will fit certain rim sizes. Selection of tires for the V710 is not as good as in the victoracers.

Then Kumho came out with the ecsta V700 which can be run in full tread for the wet or shaved to 4/32" tread for the dry. These can wear a little faster than the victoracers and tire sizes are not as many as the victoracers.

About 2-3 years ago Kumho introduced the V710 and early on it was recalled but came back on the market. Very good performance with decent wear probably twice as long as the Hoosiers. Not for wet tracks, no shaving needed, do heat cycle before using (a tirerack.com service).

I have gotten very good results from the V710s for the MINI with full upgrades to the suspension.

Changing spring rates is certainly possible but usually done for track use and for those MINIs with more power than the MC and full suspension upgrades including sometimes upgrading the front swaybar. Most of us stick to a spring set from a vendor that meets our street use and competition needs.

For Autocross the H-sport springs are pretty good. Look for a MINI that has them and running stock shocks and see what you think of the ride quality and performance.

If your MC already was ordered with the Sport suspension upgrade from the factory ($500 option) then you are already similar to the stock MCS for springs and shocks. You can still upgrade the rear swaybar.

 

Hpw do you manage that with OEM struts/springs? Mine hit the strut tower at -1.5 on the drivers side.

 

Your camber may be limited by the suspension parts you have or with your individual MINI. The goal of adjustable front camber plates is to increase negative camber to something that will give you more advantage. -2.0 degrees would be worth looking for.

I had no trouble reaching -2.2 degrees using Bilstein PSS9 coil overs or H-sport lowering springs. Stock springs and shocks might limit that as you mentioned.

Some owners opt for a fixed front camber plate of about -1.5 degrees.

Using the stock -0.5 degrees in the front will just wear out the front tires like crazy whether on the track or at autocross and the better your tires the more they can get worn out.

I have seen stock MCS in G-stock class do very well with stock alignment and Kumho V710 215/40-16 tires on stock 16" rims or the equivalent. Wear was OK for autocross- not excessive.

 

Where can I find some details on replacing the rear sway bar? Removing and reinstalling...

Does anybody know how?