I have BFG KDW2 now and am very happy with the street manners and performance. They are also very good on the track (for a street tire)

I am going to get a 2nd set of rims and non street tires ...
I do both TRACK days and AUTO-X

Here is my question...
are the tires that I want for track and auto-x the same ???
How can I choose the MOST agressive that will work for both ???

PS: I am still looking for CHEAP, LIGHT, even scuffed and used 17" rims (42 or less offset)

 

what's cheap? I have a set for sale for $350

 

350 is cheap ...
What are they ?

 

Enkei MM2. 17x7 and 17.5lbs. I've got Nokian tires mounted, but can sell those to Subaru guys. One has rash, others are ok

 

interesting ....
are those 5 lug ??? (or just a fancy cover ?)
do you know offset ?

 

dual drilled four lug (the cover is on in that pic). The offset is either 40 or 42.

 

To reply to the track/auto-x tire question requires more ionformation. What kind of track events do you participate in, sanctioned class races that have specific tire requirements? Do you run in a DOT r-comp tire class or Street Tire class in auto-x?

 

Yes, autocross usually have rules about tires that are legal in each class. You need to find out about that. Tracks have different surfaces that might favor a certain tire.

There are some autocross tires that are good for that type of driving AND good for track-
e.g. Hoosier A6(for autocross) or R6(for track) or Kumho V710

But these tires are not for any street use and they are expensive.

Tires that are more durable for the track often are not sticky enough for the highest levels of autocross.

Some tires are really street tires (extreme performance or Max Performance) that do well for some track use but they are not really that good for autocross- not sticky enough.

For street and all purpose use many use-
Falken Azenis ST-615 or Hankook Z212

Other possible tires depending on the size-
Bridgestone RE-01R
Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position
Toyo Ra1
Yokohama A048
Kumho Victoracers or Ecsta MX

 

I knew I was opening a CAN O WORMS --- LOL

I do track days and instruct for Phil Wicks, not compete (NO tire restrictions)

But I do SCCA, solo 2, shere I am in SM.. I have been running T2-SM (street tires +140 Tread Rating)

NOW I am going to move to SM (AKA... no holds barred)

 

I doubt the MCS will be competitive in SM, but for your best tire check if the Kumho V710 is available in a suitable size. or maybe the Hoosier R6. I think the A6 would be too soft for track use and wouldn't last.

 

The biggest factor is how competitive do you want to be in SM class SCCA events?

To be competitive you're looking at
Hoosier A6 in 225/40-17 if you want to keep using the 17" stock sized wheel.
Another option is to go with smaller wheels and tires than 17" for SM class since there are no limitations. You can also run street tires but you'd be giving up grip. Kumho MX, Falken ST-615 or Hankook Z212 are common.

15x8 Rota or 949racing 6UL gives you 225/45-15 tires by Hoosier A6/R6 or Avon Tech Ra.
15x7 rims are possible, lightweight and fit tires 205/50-15, 225/50-15 or 225/45-15
16x7 rims are light, easy to find. You can put various sized tires on from 205/45-16, 215/40-16, 225/45-16, etc.

I find the Toyo Ra is good for the track but lacks enough grip for autocross.
Autocross tires need to be soft and will wear out fast if used for track where tires need to handle heat better and last longer but go give up a little on grip.

 

OK... I do have a problem

I built my car for track days and know that that reall pushes me deep into SM.
pully upgrade and BBK really hurt

I also know that the MCS (almost no matter what you do isn't a regular front line contender)

So I want track day tires and tires that will make the auto-x fun.

I am not probably going to win SM but it would be fun to REALLY stick

I won the modified MCS class at Mini Meet West '05, so I think I know what I am doing ... but realistic to know my limitations in SM class


MINIHUNE... your info is GREAT... THANKS
You answered my basic question... and much more

Now someone needs to tell me I need 3 sets of tires and rims !!!

 

Well, you need autocross, track, and then rain.

 

minihune is right on the money, as usual. If it were me I'd get one of the track r-comp tires he suggested and just realize your not going to be a top contender in SM auto-x.

 

OK,

If you have pulley upgrade and Big Brake kit then you are stuck in SM class.

MINIs can hold their own on a local level against BMW M3 and WRX Sti in that class but it requires the correct suspension upgrades, setup, and really good tires.

Autocross is typically fast action, quick response, do it the first time, hang on to your hat driving using tires that are typically as wide as possible and as soft as possible. If the tires are a slightly harder more durable rubber compound then they don't stick quite as good and results are not as quick, you can loose a bit more traction- examples are Hoosier R6, Avon Tech Ra, Micheline Pilot Sport Cup, etc.

For the Track you want R compounds with a little more durability like the Hoosier R6 or if you are just starting out Kumho Victoracers or one of the good extreme or Max Performance street tires. Remember cost is a factor when Hoosiers can cost $200+ per tire and on the track tires can be used up in one day.

So now we are talking about compromises. Three sets or more of performance tires for track, HPDE, and autocross is possible but usually when you are being sponsored or you just like lots of tires and wheels.
Typically, people have such extra sets for intermediate rain and heavy rain along with dry weather tires.

In your case you have street tires. It is possible you can use those or someday replace them with tires usable for HPDE, some track and mostly street driving.

Save the second set for autocross only and not use them for other things to make them last as long as possible.

If you are committed to that then pack the set of autocross tires with you in the back of your MINI- they fit, and think about the following-

Suspension upgrades- What do you have already?
Autocross alignment- looking for more front negative camber and the right toe settings.
Front camber -3.0 or as close to it as you can manage- you'll need front adjustable camber plates
Front toe about 1/16" or 1/8" toe out
Rear camber about -1.2 to -1.4 degrees, less negative is good to reduce understeer, the smallest would be -1.0.
Rear toe about 1/16" toe in for stability in the straights.

For autocross wheels these don't really have to be expensive. If you get any semi light 15x7 rim used or not you can put 225/45-15 tires on them and that will give you decent rubber that has a lower tire diameter and better gearing for autocross. 16x7 is also possible.

A 15x7 rim will allow you to put a street tire that is 205/50-15 so even a Max performance tire is possible. It won't stick quite as nicely as an R compound but you can use it for anything from street to track to autocross and you can drive to the event in them and not have to change tires.

Check the SM class SCCA forums on NAM for ideas.

As a reality check. Often I will autocross in Hoosier A6 225/45-15 and then do fun runs later in the day in my normal street tires Bridgestone Potenza S-03 Pole Position 215/45-17 and the difference in times are about 2 to 2.5 seconds on a 40 second course. In street tires I do a bit more sliding and I have to drive that much better to stay within the limits of the tires.