There seems to be a cult-like following on NAM for the R81 Holies, a set of which I just bought for my 06 MCS for winter use (and am having installed today). I've heard R81s improve the general nimbleness of the car and give quicker turn-in, and that many people who put holies on their MCS' don't want to ever go back to 16" or 17" wheels.

I know that they are the lightest factory wheel @12 lbs. per corner and also that they are 5.5" wide. Which of these traits are quintissentially Holey? Weight or Width? And can you negate the nimbleness of Holeys by putting too wide of tires on them?

I'm asking because I've got R84 x-lites with the factory all-season runflats on my MCS currently. Since I'll have a set of winter wheels, I was thinking of putting UHP Summer tires on for the other 8 or 9 months of the year. Should I do this on my X-Lites with 205/50-16's or should I get another set of Holies and run 195/55/15's?

• Another way of putting it is - am I removing the essence of Holey goodness by going wider (putting 195/55's on them)?

or

• Does the lower profile 205/50's on 16" wheels have such a performance advantage over running 195/55's on 15" that it offsets the benefits of a 5lb. decrease at each corner that I would get from the Holies?

Budget is important, so I'm looking at Kumho Ecsta SPT and General Exclaim UHP for both scenarios. I know the Exclaim is not exactly a performance tire, but I might be willing to make the sacrifice given their longer treadwear rating and good ride quality.

This is for a daily driver with little or no track time, but I would say I drive "spiritedly" by Tire Rack standards.

I'm looking for an improved ride over my stock runflats (not hard to do, I understand), but not so much that I have to take a major hit in handling. I live in the Chicago area - wet performace in the warm months is pretty important (hydroplaning sucks).

Thanks in advance for your advice.

 

I am also interested in this...

I took off my 18" GP Wheels in favor of some "holies" with Continental snow tires, and I am getting significantly better performance, as well as extremely improved mileage....

Is it just the weight - because I am half tempted to just drop my car 2" and get some 16's now...

 

I noticed a nice improvement (acceleration and braking and handling) going from heavy SLites to my 16" Slipstreams (13.5 lbs) with 205/50/16 for the summer. I'm now running 15" wheels (R93, non holies) that weigh 14 lbs, but with the skinny 175/65/15 tires OEM Continentals for the winter.

I saved about 13 lbs per wheel/tire going from the 17" --> 16". Noticeable improvement in acceleration, and handling remained very good. Definitely more comfortable than the runflats. I'm very happy with that setup for 3 seasons.

I saved another 4-5 lbs per wheel/tire going from the 16" --> 15". More wheel spin (small contact patch) in the dry when accelerating, but it's also colder (more hp for the engine). Not much seat of the pants difference in acceleration, but it should be a little better due to the weight savings. Handling is truly compromised now, and the car doesn't have near the levels of grip as with a 205 width tire. Makes the car more "tossable" at lower limits which can be fun, but it certainly has less overall traction. It's okay for winter, but I'm anxious to go back to my non-winter setup so I can experience the essence of my Mini again.

Ultimately, a slightly heavier 16" wheel with a 205 tire will be a little worse in acceleration (and braking) compared to a 15" wheel with 195 tire. However, both are great improvements over the runflats in that area. The 16" with a 205 will give you better handling response and overall grip compared to the 15" and 195 tire.

Since we all have personal preferences that will determine whether a little better acceleration/braking or a little better grip around a turn is more important, you'll have to decide which you prefer. I'd say go for the 205 and 16" combo, personally.

A larger rim is often times more visually appealing, also, which is typically a factor. I much prefer the look of my 16" wheels versus my 15" wheels, for example:
15"


16"

 

I am running hollies for the winter on my JCW. The weight savings may lead to better acceleration if all things are equal. But they are not. The smaller contact patch means less grip. The tires are way to skinny to handle the power. Right around 4,000 RPMs, the tires loose grip.

As for handling, the slidding around can be fun, but all that means is the car can't handle as well.

I can not wait to put on my R95s with brand new 215/35/18s, but that will have to wait until April. Until then, I am basically driving and econobox (albiet a rather nice one)

 

You've got 15" holey rims and 16" X-lyte rims and you like good handling and wet performance but you want one set of wheels and tires for the summer months and one for the winter. You have the option of using two sets of Holeys one summer and one winter.

The width of the Holey is usable but not ideal. 15x6 or 15x6.5 would have been better but that adds weight. For handling 15x7 or 15x7.5 would be better, again that means more weight.

Weight and cost are the two biggest pluses for the stock Holey rim. It's cheap and easy to find, comes in white or silver, is light and functional. Narrow tires help reduce weight and are good to cut through snow and water to some extent. They also tend to cost less.

Less weight means more responsive with quicker braking and acceleration as long as traction is maintained.

Wider tires can help with handling as do lower profile sidewalls. The model of tire and it's performance class based on design allow for different handling and comfort profiles/characteristics.

The holey rim size is versatile for the MINI. At the extremes, 175 or 185/65-15 will offer good street performance with good comfort but it won't compare to 205/50-15 for handling and the larger selections of tires in that size. 205/55-15 is a good compromise size giving good handling and reasonable comfort but it's not for snow if you can find a more narrow tire in the same class.

16x6.5" X-lytes are also reasonably versatile more on the performance side but you do gain some weight for both rim and tires. If you used stock 16" rims then-
For Winter you could consider:
Falken Ziex Ze-912 $74 each Ultra HP All Season tire 360 treadwear, also in 195/55-16 but sold out at edgeracing.com
For Summer:
Falken Fk452 $75 205/50-16 Ultra HP summer tire 300 treadwear

For many owners the 15" stock rims will work well for winter use while the 16" work for summer street use (205/50-16 or maybe 205/55-16 with stock suspension). There are many solutions: 16" for both summer and winter, 15" for both, or 15" or summer and 16" for winter. As a result you might want to look at optimal tires given your budget and see what sizes will work in either 15" or 16" and choose accordingly. In other words pick a tire for summer and one for winter then match the rim to make it work. Most people do the opposite.

15" Holeys are just all purpose rims. The downside is they won't fit over larger brake calipers and with 205mm wide tires they are rather narrow. There is potential risk of increasing tramlining when using wide tires on narrow rims, depends on your roads and which tire.

 

It's the narrow 175/65/15 tires that usually come on the holies that gives them thier nimbleness. The weigh might have somthing to do with it. Anyway, here is my experience. I used to have 205/50/15 on my steel rims, then when I got new 195/60/15 tires, the steering responce felt more nimble. The effect was too great to have been merely the model change. Back to the holies, if you put too wide of a tire on those, wider than 185, not only will it look silly, but you will loose the nimbleness those rims could facilitate.

 

Thanks for the replies so far. It sounds like I will restrict the Holies to winter use (now running 185/65-15 Nokian WRg2), and get some nice shoes for my X-lites in summer.

Minihune - thanks for the falken recommendation. I'm reading about issues with the General Exclaim UHP (really soft sidewalls which lead to poor cornering) and the Kumho Ecsta SPT (develop flat spots overnight that wobble until you've been driving for a few minutes & also have lousy treadlife). What about the Avon Tech M500 for 3 season street use? Any other reasonably priced contenders?

 

I am very happy with my Kuhmo ECSTA ASTs. They have a nice directional tread pattern, are quiet, grip great in the rain, and corner excellently.... and they were not expensive. Run them at 33 psi.

 

Thanks - may I ask why you went for the Ecsta AST instead of the Ecsta ASX (higher speed rated)? I've considered the ASX, but thought I might as well skip all season tires since I don't need any winter performance out of them. But if good all seasons do what I require of them, then I will reconsider.

 

its the weight, because they are about half the weight of any other rims (my 16 are 20 lbs or so, and 18s are 24lbs and up). The narrowniss isnt ideal, but if you want the best of oem, they are what you want. You will also want to run short side walls to get a gearing advantage, and try not to go too wide. 195 would probably be ideal, but 205 (what i will be running this year on hollies i might be borrowing) is doable, but the feel will be a bit squishey.

the hollies will ride better, and accelerate faster, and brake better. Keep slightly narrow tires for handling (turn in), and go wider if you can live with the squishey feel and want outright grip. On the street, it probably doesnt matter at all, and would probably run narrower tires because they are lighter yet, and wont be squishey, so they will be nimbler as you say.

Hope this helps

 

I originally had the holies & stock 175/65/15s on my '06 cooper. First I changed to 195/60/15s on the holies, and didn't like the overall "squirmy" feel in hard cornering - imo the holies are too narrow to work properly with tires much wider than the 175mm that come stock. I found a set of BBS RGF forged wheels in 15X7 which are even lighter than the holies burt substantially wider, and I'm very happy with them - nimble but with the grip advantage of more width. Couple of pix attached

 

It's gotta be the holes.

 

If you want some high performance summer wheels & tires, but don't want to go small, then try:
Konig Feathers, 17"s are 16lbs.
Sportmax 003 - 17"s are 14 lbs.
and my personal favorite for extreme summer performance tire, Flaken Azenis RT-615.
That way, you have the larger rim, while still reaping the weight savings, for the most part.

 

I run the Holies and they handle a lot better than my 17s. All you doubters have to do is look at F1...they run 13" wheels and tires with very high aspect ratios...they seem to handle ok. You dont have to light em up to fast in Solo II. Weight is the name of the game.

 

I'd like to see how they handle with 175 mm width tires...

While weight is certainly part of the game, there is also something to be said for sidewall height/firmness (feel and responsiveness) and size of the contact patch (grip). Finding the right balance that suits each of our best interests is what is key. But yes, all other things being equal, lighter is better.

 

Yeah F1 uses a carbon fiber sidewall so they probably save weight going with as small of wheel that can fit over the brakes. The tires just cant be compliant to pull the kind of Gs they do. There are plenty of sport tires out there nowadays with stiff sidewalls. You should be able to find a really decent tire and then lightest wheel that fits over your brakes making a great combo. A good tire will keep the responsiveness and shedding weight at the wheels is huge. So long as the tires are decent smaller is the way to go if performance is your true goal. But yeah id just go with after market wheels that could be much cheap and lighter and have a width more appropriate for a wider performance oriented size. Theres plenty of 15 and 16 inch selection out there due just about every small japanese car using the 4X100 bolt pattern until recently.