The goal: pad that I can run on street and 1 to 2 track days/year (street tires, usually intermediate group). The top priority is no (or little) brake squeal on the street and good stopping power at street temperatures. I don't care about dust.

I have run only 1 track day so far with the MINI and that was on stock pads - no problems, but I was deliberatey conservative on the brakes and it wasn't a high speed course. The stock pads need replacing so I'm looking for something that can handle more heat.

I got some good advice last week from Dustin (AutoXCooper) and Jeff (TSW), and I think I have gone through every pad post on NAM. If I was willing to run street vs. track pads then the best bets for track seem to be Carbotech XP10/8 or Porterfield R4. If it was purely street, then the Carbotech Bobcats sound best. In between are Carbotech AX6, Ferodo 2500, and Porterfield R4S.

I'm looking for those with real world experience with any of these in terms of noise. I'm thinking that maybe I'm best off with a "medium" pad (AX6, 2500, R4S) and continue to be gentle on the brakes at the track. But is the AX6 any quieter than the XP10/8? How do Ferodo2500 and Porterfield R4S compare to AX6 in terms of noise and performance?

In terms of cold stopping power (panic stop after cruising at highway speeds), I'm assuming that all are going to better than stock since the friction coef. curves for similar performance pads all appear to be higher than street pads even at cold temperatures. Is this correct?

Thanks for any advice.

 

I would highly recommend the Carbotech XP10/8 combo for the track. The track is not a place to compromise. Good track pads typically need hot temperatures to be effective and they may not be better than good street pads when cold.

I run street pads for the street and track pads for the track. It takes me about 30-45 minutes each time to swap the front ones out. This gives me a chance to look carefully at the brake system as I disabled the low pad sensors.

I find that you will get the straight (and good) advise from Dustin.

 

Slinger, you only mention swapping the fronts - does that mean you leave the XP8's on the rears for the street?

Related to this, I've seen some posts suggesting that the Bobcats and XP10's can't be run on the same rotors. I'll have to check back with Dustin to get his advice. Swapping out pads is something I may have to do, but swapping out rotors adds expense and PIA that I'd rather avoid.

 

I've got the Carbotech Bobcats. I got them to use for street, autocross and 2 track days a year. I've had them for about a year and a half now and they've been great; nice initial bite and good modulation. They are however starting to get a bit noisy now, but they quite down when they heat up. They're a good all-around pad. If I were wanting to be more competitive, I'd look at the XP10s. Also remember to get a good brake fluid, like Motul or ATE.

 

FYI, you can run any Carbotech pads on the same rotors, no need to change rotors and pads.

Many people run the XP8 in the rear full time and just change out the front pads for event from 1521 to XP??.

Please do not run any 1521 on the track front or rear.

Brake Fluid is something we should all do once a year, I like spring changes, unless you are tracking the MINI and then think about doing it before each event or so.

If there was one pad that did everything we wanted I'd be posting from a beach front home.

 

I leave the rear xp8s on as Dustin has mentioned.

 

Sorry, I got first dibs.

 

since neither AutoXCooper or ToddTCE could provide a dual purpose pad, i'll have to make my MINI a race car to avoid pad changes.

 

Man I don't know about the track but the combination of my Stoptech BBK and the CarboTechs all the way around my braking it amazing.

I've been giving a lot of rides to people who want to feel what a 300+ HP Mini feels like these days. The first thing that happens is followed every time by "Wow, great brakes"!

Oh, and the lack of dust is truly awesome.

Longboard

 

How noisy are the AX6 for street driving?

 

Hey Bigshot, it's hard to say how noisy you think they will be, I have yet to have anyone tell me the same thing about noise on any CT pad. It's a very subjective issue just like CAI and cat backs, one mans noise is other mans music.

 

Well for brakes squeal is squeal.
If they are louder, squeal wise, than stock that's what I want to know.

 

LB: take it to the track! your car deserves some quality track time. it will also take you from "great brakes" to "what brakes". a very good street set-up will quickly be brought to its knees on the track. track-only pads will be required for a car w/ your speed potential.

 

Bean, don't go there...LB has dropped some serious Jack into that car; he takes it to the track and figures out what else he's going to have to do to it to be a track beast, he's going to make the national debt pale in comparison...

 

I just ordered pads from Dustin for my JCW. Took his advice and went for CT XP10/XP8 for track duty and 1521/XP8 for street.

I'm also planning to do a flush and bleed with ATE Super Blue or something comparable before my track weekend (coming up June 13-14 at GIR).

 

sorry....i couldn't resist the temptation. this is a brake thread. i wouldn't think of tempting him on an engine/drivetrain thread.

 

Yes the AX6 are louder then OEM.

 

 

Can I use XP10 in the front and stock in the rear for the track? (HPDE) I don't want to spend more money and don't have the time for the shipping.

 

i don't run carbotech pads. i do, however, run an aggressive front pad (poly h's). i think that your brake bias will be too forward w/ this combination. you may not need to have XP8's in the rear, but something w/ more brake tq. and heat capacity than OEM might be a good choice. not wanting to spend more money is a bad excuse to be unsafe. shipping excuse is worse! i have played w/ many front/rear combos, but nothing as extreme as you propose. that said, the MINI is a very tolerant vehicle and you may be fine. it depends upon your experience and how close to the limits you will be pushing the XP10's. good luck to you and keep us informed.
greg

 

^^^ Greg is right, running OEM's on the rear with any track pad is not a good idea. "Front" Track pads are designed to run with rear track pads.

I like to think about track pads as really good insurance for track days.

Why risk all the track fee's, your MINI, your life and the life and car's of those around you when track pads and tires in the long run cost less then a wreck. Along those lines I've never understand why we spend money on going faster, but don't think as much about stopping all that power.

 

I own every Carbotech pad ever made.

Well, not really. But I DO own 1521/Bobcats, AX6, XP8 rears and XP10 fronts. I've used all of them and will continue to use all of them. Bobcats for daily use. AX6 for my mountain twisty runs (e.g. trips to the Dragon). XPs for the track.

What has been said about "compromise" and pads for the track is true in my opinion - it just doesn't make sense to try to buy one pad to do it all - yes, dedicated track pads cost more money than just running your street pads at the track... but I know many people who have COMPLETELY worn out an almost new set of street pads on the track in one day. Good track pads should last several days on the track for most people. And, while many of us go to the track with the "intention" of being conservative on the brakes, that's not what going to the track is all about, and I find myself pushing the limits of whatever equipment I bring. Even with the XP10's, I nuked my front brakes in my 6th session yesterday - but I was BRUTAL on them the last couple of sessions. I think the pads are still fine, but I think I boiled my SuperBlue and overheated my rotors and calipers. Will figure it all out when I tear them down today or tomorrow.

As for noise - Bobcats are very quiet when properly installed and properly bedded on properly prepped rotors. AX6 pads are very noisy - mine are noisier than my XP10/XP8 combo. AX6 pads are made to have GREAT bite when cold and when warm to moderately hot. XP pads are made to have GREAT bite when warm to very hot. XP pads have very little bit when cold, but will still stop the car.

As has been said - swapping pads on the MINI is pretty easy and quick - the fronts are VERY easy, and the rears are pretty easy with the right tools after you've figured it out. I can do a 4 wheel pad swap in about 40 minutes, start to finish. Just doesn't seem like much time or effort to have the optimal equipment for each purpose.

 

miniminn, I can't speak personally as to the effectiveness of the rear brakes on the MINI but... as a FWD car with 63% of the weight on the front wheels, the rears aren't doing much. I've been helping a friend race IT/PT cars for several years including, at various times, a Saturn SC2, a Protege and a Sentra, all FWD. Both the Saturn and the Sentra were perfectly fine with OEM pads at the rear. This is pretty common around the paddock with Golfs, Civics, etc. as well.

The Saturn was pulled from the assembly line, prepped and campaigned originally by a number of Saturn engineers. It was one of two or three cars they ran for a couple of years in SCCA. These guys were very, very particular. Their setup notes were extensive. When we talked to them about the brakes, they were insistent that it would be worthless to do anything but OEM pads in their rear; they just don't do anything.

The Sentra (with a really expensive Moton suspension) was the same way based on our own findings. The Protege, with a BBK up front and a brake bias adjuster, could use a little more aggressive pad in the rear but even then... not as much as the front. We just ran a Hawk HPS or HP Plus, as I recall.

I've only tracked my MINI once so far and it's my first FWD track car. I managed to get it out once last year just to feel it out. I'm heading out Saturday after many upgrades in the year since and I expect I'll get it out the usual 5 or 6 times to the track this year. I picked up R56 calipers and track pads for the front but I'm going to give it a whirl with OEM rears. We'll see. If those don't work, I'll try a street/track crossover for the rears and just swap fronts.

I think you'll be fine giving it whirl to see if it works or not with respect to your abilities and the track.

 

I'm not a huge supporter of changing rear pads on cars fit with a front BBK for the much the reason you mention; rear brake effectiveness.

However....for those who are more serious about the track use I've come to the conclusion that a change remains necessary for the rear when using track pads up front. Not because you're able to exploit so much more from the rear on the track than the street- we know that's seldom the case, but rather the temperatures at which the rear brakes will now be operating.

Fitting a pad more stable at upper temps will insure the rears work as well as they can for the duration of the 30min session and crumble or overheat and smear rendering them useless. To that end I've also felt the 11.75 rotor offers the same benefits; not so much the need for more tq but rather the need for a large heat sink and less stressed consistent braking performance to help lower rotor, pad and ultimately fluid temps.

Finding the right mix of all this can take time and experimentation. All just part of the track day experience.

 

Todd Nailed It! Running OEM or street pads on the rear for track events with Track pads in the front will over work the rear, over heat the fluid, ALL the fluid, leading to fade in the front due to fluid break down, and maybe the pads too, which are then over worked while you slam the pedal into the floor.

There are many rear track pads for $150 or less a set. That's less then $150 of insurance for many $500 track day/s or more if you go off track or hit someone due to over heating the wrong setup. Brakes are not the place to save money IMHO.