OK. I realize that most of you don't know me, but I'm just wondering in general: for those of you who do this sort of thing regularly, is it really as easy as everyone makes it out to be? I've looked at Randy's how-to, and it's nice and all...but I really can't tell a whole lot from most of the pictures. My main fear is the whole "piston won't retract" thing that I have heard about from time to time. I'd like to do this myself, but then again, I'd like to make sure that my car stops when I want it to. I would also like to save the $100 + or - that it's going to cost me to have a shop do this for me.

Your thoughts?

 

Have a Break Party - get a couple of other MINI owners together (invite someone who owns tools) and tackle it together; Aftre the first time, you'll be able to do it on your own ...

 

It's actually not difficult. It's dirty, but that's ok. The main thing is to have the right tools BEFORE you start (luckily for me there's a hardware store within walking distance - 3 trips!!!).

Loosen the lug nuts, jack up the side, remove wheel.

You need pliers to remove the clip on the brake caliper.

A 7mm Hex on a socket wrench (I used a 1/2" socket wrench). This is to remove the sliding caliper from the brake unit. There is one bolt on top and one on the bottom (from the inside of the car). These are REALLY REALLY REALLY tight. I used a 3 pound hammer to help leverage the socket wrench. Once loose, it's a piece of cake.

Slide the caliper off, remove the pads. (The inside one has a clip that holds it in).
Put your new pads on. I found that putting the inside pad on, then pushing back on the sides of pad was enough to make the piston go in and make room for the new thickness. Then put the outside pad on and slide it back over the disc.

Retighten the two bolts, add clip (this can be a little tricky too!) and remount wheel. It will take about 30 minutes per wheel for your first time.

I have not done the rear brakes, so I do not know if there is anything tricky about that piston, or how the handbrake works on them. Maybe someone else can fill you in on that area.

Buy some Lanolin Cream to clean the grease off your hands when done. !!

You might consider turning your Rotors, using an anti-squeal substance on the back of the pads, and then following the instructions for breaking in your new pads to avoid squealing. Check this thread

Good Luck!

 

Ok, a couple things with Ryanide's post:

Agree it's not difficult, however please get the right tools. This car is made in England, by a company owned by a German company. Get a set of metric wrenches and sockets and some torx bits. I also recommend about a foot of 1/4" tubing for this project.

Please don't use a 1/2" socket and a 3 lbs hammer It might work the first time (assuming the car stays on the jack stands) But after the bolt head is rounded off you'll pay hell trying to get it out, much less ever use it again. Use a "cheater" bar or the box end of another wrench slipped over the handle of your socket wrench for the leverage needed to brake the torque.

If you replace your pads when needed and not as a "mod" then you will need to bleed off the pressure that is in the caliper (that's what the 1/4" hose is for) allowing the piston to go back into the caliper to make room for the new pads. Put one end on the bleeder screw and the other in a coffee can or similar container. Brake the torque on the bleeder screw and compress the caliper. Making sure to close the bleeder screw after the piston is compressed. I haven't changed my pads yet so I don't know which type of caliper MINI uses, but there are basically 2 types: those that the piston will compress back into the caliper with force (c-clamp, spring clamp) and those that require the piston be "rotated" (didn't think screwed would get past the block) to go back into the caliper. It is easy to tell, generally, those that turn will have groves for a tool to fit into.

You should also torque the retaining bolts after you have replaced the pads (I don't have the number, but call the dealer/service tech). You might also want to bleed the calipers after everything is remounted, it is a 2 person job and that's another thread.

I recommend you don't "turn" the rotors if they're glazed just take some 120 grit paper and using a flat block of wood (I use a DA sander) remove the glaze with light pressure and ensure you sand from more then one direction. IMO turning rotors is a waste of money, metal and time. You’re just wearing down the rotor.

Just my $0.03

 

Maxwell,
I think that if you have all the tools (don't jury rig it or use the wrong tools) and if you have detailed instructions, then I say you are handy enough around an engine to do brakes too!
what's the worst case sinerio?
You mess up and have to take it in and pay a professional to change them again?
Ok, check your wallet, if you can afford the worst case sinerio, then I say try it!
and Have a great day working on your MINI!

and this advise from a woman who skips the first step and just pays the professional from the get go

 

:smile:

_________________

 

>>Hoping to get another MINI guy (or more?) out to my place next Sunday so we can stand around and grunt ideas to whomever is stuck.

A good idea the first time. Why go through the agony when I'm sure it'd be easy to get another MINIac to help/advise.

 

You are right about the cheater bar. If you don't have a pipe lying around, I've found that the handle from one of those bottle type jacks will work also. As for the box end wrench trick, a picture is worth a 1000 words

) they had a thin metal "anti-chatter" shim that went between the caliper and the pads and this wasn't available aftermarket. Stuff I used was a spray (2 to 3 coats) that would develop a film on the backside of the pad, allow to dry and install, worked well.

And remember no beer for the helpers until the work is done!

 

Probably the most important thing to remember is to have plenty of Brake Cleaner. Saturate everything–rotors, calipers, pads–before you touch them. Brake pad dust is not something you want to breathe so get those compotents wetted down good with brake cleaner before you start to take them apart. Pads are a cinch to change. You've got discs front and rear so you don't have any nasty drums to deal with.

Just follow Randy's steps and you'll do fine.

 

Smokey,

Sounds good on the cheater bar. Interesting that Randy's how-to doesn't mention that these bolts are such difficult little critters. In answer to your question about why new fluid, it's mainly because I noticed some brake fade at the track two weeks ago, and the prevailing opinion on this forum is that the stock fluid is trash. I'm upgrading to a higher temp fluid (Ate Superblue). I'll try the sandpaper rotor cleaning and see how that goes. Otherwise, I've got a garage (my regular) who'll do it, but said that I should expect about an hour of labor out of it ($90).

So, I *should* go get some sort of anti-squeal compound? What's it called: anti-squeal or anti-seize? It's available in a spray can? I should be able to find it at any good auto parts store? It is applied to the BACK of the pads? What does it do?

Thanks for all your help (and you other folks, too). You're a real asset to this forum!!

 

I can't say if you should use some, only that I have used it before with good luck. I have both the spray and salve/gel and you should be able to find it at any auto parts store, good or bad I would think that since you have them apart it would be a good time to give it a try, and yes it goes on the back of the pads.

Anti-squeal is very different then anti-seize and I've never used them interchangeably (is that a word?)

Can you tell it's raining here, and I haven't anything better to do!

 

This might help, or just confuse you more...

http://outmotoring.com/How_to_Brakepadsft.html

You shouldn't have a problem with the piston retracting, especially if you work fairly quick. If the rear retracts, use needle nose pliers to turn the screw-drive piston back in a bit...

 

Nice DIY Outmotoring

Did you have your rotors turned prior to installing the EBC pads? If not any noise from them?

 

Thanks Out and Smokey,

Out--I've got two questions:

1) What's this with a brake line grommet??? That's the first I've heard of it.

2) What's MINI spec torque on the caliper bolts?


Smokey--I've been seeing anti-seize and anti-squeal pop up in threads about loud brakes; not necessarily interchangably, but I wanted to know what the deal is there. I know what anti-seize is and what it is used for. I have no idea what anti-squeal is and what it's supposed to do...

 

1.The brake line grommet is just a little rubber ring that snaps onto the strut assembly to keep the line from rubbing on the wheel, discs or springs. No big deal.

2.The torque values I have are:

Front :

disc to hub (torx) : 27 nm
caliper to steering knuckle : 110 nm
guide bolt (7mm) : 25-30 nm
dust shield : 8 nm

Rear :

disc to hub : 27 nm
caliper to trailing arm : 65 nm
guide bolt : 25-30 nm

That should do the trick...

 

Chitown Coop -

Anti-squeal is just that a product designed to stop squealing Sorry couldn't resist and yes I know I've violated the first rule in the game of "Define This" by using the word in the definition.

Anti squeal stuff is designed to form an elastic cushion that absorbs pad vibration. It's that simple.

Here is a great link to a article about brake squeal done by Zundfolge, Publication of BMW Automobile Club Of America in Dec. '97 -

Brake Squeal - BMW's Answer

Oh, and 1 Foot-pound = 1.356 Newton Meters. Here's a nice little web page that will provide the conversion for you. Just enter Out's numbers in the Newton metres block and it will spit out the foot pound equivalent.

Engineering + Internet

 

Interesting reading, smokey! Well, I did a prelim today, which consisted of loading up on any missing tools and then doing a trial run on a squeaky corner (removing pads, cleaning pads, cleaning/sanding rotor, applying anti-squeal to pad backs). Everything went splendidly and it was much easier and more obvious than I had expected. Only thing is, I'm still baffled at anti-squeal agents...I picked up a little tub of brake caliper grease that I took to be anti-squeal (mainly because it said that it eliminated squeals ). Now after reading your last post, it seems that caliper grease and anti-squeal are two different things!!! Well, the stuff I got is some heavy duty mud-colored grease that I brushed onto the pad backs before re-installing. The horrific squealing that I had before seemed to go away at first...for about 20 minutes of driving. Then it was back, and though not as bad as before, still downright annoying.

I'm still worried that my rotors are pretty messed and need to be lathed. I went after 'em with 150 grit on an orbital for a while, and while it seemed to do some good, I'm not convinced that that had much to do with anything. The little grooves in the rotor seem to be too deep for the sander to get into. Oh well.... :???:

 

The grease is for a **Different** reason. It is to lubricate slidiing pieces. Normally this is used on the bolts which allow the caliper to "float" side to side on the disk. If these do not move, one pad will wear more than the other. Grease should only be used on these bolts or pins. [I have not done MINI brakes, so they may/may not have some items].

The anti SQUEAL goes on the pad backs to provide an a dampening effect The grease just wore off because it doesn't harden at all. It provided dampening for a few minutes.

Rotors often look pretty bad, but I have never had a pair turned, only sanded. The rotors can look bad and work find with a new set of pads. The rotors tend to cut the pads which then match the rotors [I think that is what happens ...] I have never had a problem with that approach - oters responding have indicated the same. If the grooves on the rotor are small and consistent, you should not have a problem.

Note that brakes require high tempaerature grease - oridnary stuff will burn up. And, the grease is not the same as anti-seize, which is designed not to lubricate, but to prevent metals from seizing.

I normally get two little "bags" (packets?) of anti-squeal from my auto parts store at $1.00 or so each - one more than does one wheel. Just ask at the counter for them - they are often on the counter, and they will try to sell them to you on your way out with brake pads!

 

Yep. I just got back from a different auto store and discovered that they had several "brake quiet" options to choose from. I picked up a squeezy bottle of CRC Brake Quiet or something like that. It looks like it's a sort of goopy orange goo that you put on the pad backs and let cure...sort of making a rubberized-type backing for the pad. I think you're absolutely right that the grease just wore off after a little while. But the grease was a high-temp caliper grease that actually recommended on the container to be put on the pad backs, sliders, etc.

When I do my full brake job this Sunday, I'm going to put the orange goo on the backs of all the pads, and then I'm going to put the caliper grease on the sliders only. I also plan on doing some light sanding and cleaning of all the rotors. Hopefully, all of these put together will 1) make a nice transition to the new and improved pads and 2) help me avoid squeaky, squealy brakes in the future. I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

A question about anti-squeal application. I've already gotten my brakes in the mail, and as I mentioned, I'm not going to have a chance to do the job until Sunday. Would it hurt for me to put the anti-squeal goo on the pad backs a day or two in advance and let it cure? Any reason that could possible hurt? I don't think so, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

Thanks again for the help, folks!

 

Nope wouldn't hurt a thing, matter a fact that would be recommended.