Yesterday I placed an order for a winter tire package with Alex. A short while later I received a phone call saying my phone number didn't show in directory assistance and the lady asked if I had an alternate phone number that was listed. I said my number was unlisted to avoid telemarketers and that I didn't have another number I could be reached at. The lady was very nice and said she would have to get authorization from her supervisor but assured me "it shouldn't be a problem."

This morning I get another phone call stating that they cannot verify my phone number so they cannot process my payment/order. I was rather surprised that this would be a stumbling block as they were actively phoning me at my number. After a little more phone tag I find out my only other option is payment in the form of a Western Union Quick Collect transaction. A little put out that I would have to pay an additional $15 I head out to the closest Western Union agent in my area. When I get there I'm a little surprised (again) to find out my card is declined. I call my bank and find out that Tirerack has already processed authorization/payment on my credit card. In the process of talking to my bank I also find out that they have already verified my address etc to tirerack.

Clearly confused, because I was told couldn't process payment without a listed phone number, I head back home to contact tirerack again. I'm told that I have to contact my bank and have them remove the charge off my card. A little dubious I contact my bank only to find out that I am unable to do this and it can only be done by the merchant. After more phone tag with the poor lady at tirerack I relay the information that only they can remove the charge. At this point I'm looking for alternatives to help this process along. I even offer to fax a copy of my drivers license to verify my address and info is correct but I'm told no. The only thing accepted is a non-unlisted phone number, even though they called me 6+ times at my number, or a wire transfer. Beyond frustrated by the supreme run around at this point I cancel the order.

I'm sorry Alex I tried to support you and tirerack to the point where I felt like I was standing here waving my money hoping and practically begging for my order to go through. I had even recommended tirerack to all my friends and family. Not now though. Now I'm going to have to relay my bad experience and warn people.

tl;dr If you have an unlisted phone number be prepared for a headache from tirerack.

 

What does an unlisted number have to do with buying something online? Why do they need your phone number to charge your CC?

 

Sounds like a scam and not Tire Rack.

 

I have no clue. I've bought many things online before and never had a problem. Ever.

You referring to me?

 

Odd. I just spent $4k with Alex/TR and had no problem. They did call to verify my order and that who I said I was - I can appreciate that for an order of that size being shipped across the country - it protects them as well as me. I don't think that my number is listed, but I'm not actually sure, it might be.

This does sound screwy though. As long as you're shipping to your billing address, that eases a lot of the potential fraud angst. Were you shipping to a different address by chance? That might have caused higher security to kick in.

 

The phone number must be part of their banks verification process to reduce theft.....like having to put your billing zip into the gas pump in areas that have a higher fraud problem than average. Usually I have not heard of such a convoluted problem doing a work around....but something must have set the alarm bells ringing with your order, so they were being extra careful....usually the number is just cross referenced with what is shown in the banks records...billing address, phone number, etc......this is the first time I have heard of them looking it up in the phone-book....sounds kinda odd....but them saying it was declined, then asking for electronic payment seems right...then your bank saying paid.......sounds like a electronic *****-up. Crap happens....good luck getting it fixed.

 

I had the same issue with the phone number when I purchased through TireRack. They wouldn't ship until they could reach me by calling a listed number. My numbers are unlisted and I referred them my workplace which they could look up the main number. However, unknown to me our office had a phone problem and it took a couple of days before they got through.

My thought was that TireRack started this policy after shipping some fraudulent purchases.

 

Nope. Billing and shipping address were the same and my phone number was the same as on my credit card info. Which my bank said was verified when tirerack called them.


Well I'm glad I'm not the only person who had this happen. I guess what added on to my problem is I don't have a workplace number they can reach me at. I still don't see how this arbitrary step will verify anything my bank didn't already tell them.

 

Sorry to hear about your problems. I've dealt with Tire Rack for years without an issue. I've ordered probably 30 sets of tires and tire/wheel combos over the years. Maybe you got a newbie. I have a wholesale account so I don't think I'll have that problem, but it is good to let people know. You may want to shoot Alex an email directly. As a business owner, I always want to know when I have a customer service problem and I'm sure they would like to know too. Any chance you tried to go over their head and plead your case. I love going up the chain on command.

Good luck.

 

When I was talking to Tori there she was going back and forth with her supervisor a few times. So ultimately no I didn't go up the chain of command past that but I honestly don't think I should have had to. I don't see why a first time customer should have to go up the chain of command just to place an order. If I had a problem with a product or needed to return something perhaps I could see a case for it then but not for this.

 

Just from my point of view as a vendor, we've had a BIG uptick in fraud attempts this year. We've also had to raise our hurdles for ordering as a result, and that has annoyed some customers. But the alternative for us is to have criminals stealing parts from us. Better safe than sorry, but it's a fine line. I don't want to anger our good customers. The problem is, I can't tell a criminal from a customer in advance...

--Dan
Mach V

 

If you've ever been in a store where you're being stared at and treated as a shoplifter before you've taken 3 steps, that's what this is like. If that happens I won't go back to that place. If you can afford to turn away legitimate customers in this economy then you're doing better than most.

 

If the credit card charge was authorized/approved, and neither the credit card company or the cardholder has any issues, then what's the problem? How is there potential fraud that would affect Tirerack?

 

I guess that's what ultimately drove me to bring this here. I just don't understand it either....

 

None of us like having to stand in long lines at the airport now for security either, but that's the price we pay when trust can no longer be universal. I know you had a rotten experience, and hopefully they and others can learn from it to improve their processes. Like others said, fraud is every increasing, and that leads to higher prices for all of us, as well as being subject to more security processes. But still, I think you're being a bit harsh in your overall critique.

It's curious how unsatisfied consumers are so quick to publicly complain and "relay my bad experience and warn people"... I get the point about expressing your opinion and side of the story, but to actively try to steer people away from using an otherwise reputable company? Wow, glad I don't do business with you, for fear of something going wrong and you launching a campaign against my company.

 

No no no...Not at all! Whenever I hear a wire transfer or Western Union, it raises red flags for me. Was it really the Tire Rack contacting you? That's why I said I thought it was a scam.

 

It is the up to the credit card issuer to worry about fraud, isn't it? So why is Tirerack all concerned? The charge was APPROVED. What's the problem?

 

is that each and every company can set the level of verification that is required. The CC processing company will do it with no verification if that's what the vendors wants, or it's got to go through tons of specific verifications, as specified by the company, not the credit card processor.

We had a customer with some privacy issues such that our default verification process would decline his purchase. After dealing with him for a bit we changed the settings so his purchase would go through, then went back to our default level. Took some work, customer was happy, we got the sale, but it took more time on both our parts.

I guess Tire Rack has been burned one time too many to be this accomidating. But CC fraud is on the rise, things like this will probably be more frequent.

Matt

 

How the card issuer handles fraud is by making a charge-back to the vendor. Not only do they lose the payment, but the product as well. Not only that, but charge-backs increase the fees charged to them by the credit card authorization company.

The burden of proof is entirely on the vendor. My office has seen a significant increase in fraudulent orders and losses in the past year as well. This is also the worst time of year for them in our case.

The bank will ask for continually higher bars of proof- first for the address verification, then delivery signatures, then for records of communication with the customer, and finally "reasonable proof" that the authorized card holder placed the order.

In one case, we shipped to the billing address of the credit card, had proof of the address verification from the credit card processing, verbal confirmation of the address direct from the bank, matching phone numbers, record of telephone calls to the verified phone number, proof of delivery with a signature from the card holder and the bank still refunded the money to the "customer". All they had to do was call and tell the bank that they didn't place the order within 90 days of the charge.

Also, it's possible for authorization to be done where the vendor doesn't receive payment and the bank holds the amount of the charge. It sounds like they started to process the order, but something threw a warning flag and the charge wasn't finalized.

Depending on the bank and the credit card processing that the vendor uses, it can take a day or two for the money to be returned- it's similar to the getting $100.00 held on your account for a $32.00 gas charge. If someone told you that you would need to contact the bank to clear the authorization, that would be my guess. It's a lot easier to run a credit than it is to tell a customer that you can't do it.

For my office, once a larger order has been marked as suspicious it gets quite a bit more scrutiny. The best method I've come up with for similar situations is to contact the bank's card security/fraud department and ask them to contact the customer using their contact information to confirm that they placed an order with us. Some banks won't do this though.

I've offered wire transfers as an alternative before, but if I do I always offer to reduce the charge by any fees incurred.

 

This happened to me at Tire Rack when I needed a rushed order of tires, was running on a spare, so I went through Vulcan Tire's and used their PayPal options. It happened again but this time I had plenty of tread, Tire Rack just had a really good deal on the GS-D3s that I couldn't pass. So, I PayPal'd my sister the cash and she ordered with her credit card and had them shipped to my hotel and I let my sis keep the Goodyear $50 rebate for her troubles.

 

To be fair I don't think is a good comparison. At the airport peoples lives are at stake. Here I'm just trying to make a purchase online.

I don't think that making a post on this forum counts as launching a campaign. Especially in light of the fact that I learned about Tire Rack on this forum and all the positive feedback encouraged me to purchase from them.

A more analogous situation would be shopping at a store that only accepts cash and telling your friend "if you shop there, they only accept cash." If I had known before hand that Tire Rack required a listed phone or work number I would have been more prepared or avoided this scenario altogether.

Ah, sorry if I misunderstood you there. I'm almost 100% sure that it was indeed Tire Rack. I had received emails from them and I phoned the number on their website when going back and forth. So if this was a scam, somehow, it would have been THE perfect scam.

I'm sorry to hear this happened to you and in my opinion the bank was wrong. It was obviously a scam but I don't see how a listed phone or work number would remedy the situation. I even tried to go, what I consider, proof above that and fax a copy of my drivers license. I could have even faxed a copy of my phone bill showing my address is connected to the phone number I provided. But in the end it was refused.

 

Noz, one thing you might consider doing.....

I've bought plenty of tires from Tire Rack over the years and consider them a good place to do business, but the last set of tires I bought I shopped price online then went to the closest NTB and asked them to match the deal - which they did. Local business, tires in stock, and I was on my way a couple hours later.

I know you bought a package, but they do sell wheels there too......

 

I have been purchasing from tirerack for over 20 years and not once had a problem, My last Purchase was about 3 weeks ago, I also have an unlisted number.
If you have a cell phone maybe list that number with your banks and credit cards, that may help.

 

I will admit I had no idea how the fraud/credit card thing really worked. I think that we, as consumers, are under the impression that if there is a fraudulent charge that it was the CC company that took the hit. I never knew that each business determined what it takes to be approved/authorized either. Now I see why there is a problem.

And Dave's idea seems like a good one. Go local. Give someone a chance to match it.

 

The point is, we have to go through more scrutiny now than ever. Same with buying a home and getting approved for a mortgage. I'm fairly certain identify theft and fraud are serious problems for today's society, even if it's not a life and death situation.

Here's what you said, "I had even recommended tirerack to all my friends and family. Not now though. Now I'm going to have to relay my bad experience and warn people." Hmmm, we'll just leave it at that.

I understand that you are disappointed by the circumstances. Perhaps you've not been affected by someone ripping off your business or attempting fraudulent activity with your information. Sometimes your perspective can change when you attempt to see the situation from the other point of view, or if you've experienced the other side. I'm just sayin'...