Yokohama Avid Envigor Anyone?
#51
11-18-2010, 09:29 AM
I'm having the 215/45/17's put on Friday or Saturday. Can't wait! It will be nice to know which tire is flat when one is actually flat! hahaha
I missed out on the rebate. Going to be 583 with all the discount tire options/roadside. Seems a bit high but one of my fronts is 3/32's and its getting cold fast so..
My back two tires (Goodyear EMT runflats) are 7/32 and 9/32 if someone wants to buy them cheap pm me.
I missed out on the rebate. Going to be 583 with all the discount tire options/roadside. Seems a bit high but one of my fronts is 3/32's and its getting cold fast so..
My back two tires (Goodyear EMT runflats) are 7/32 and 9/32 if someone wants to buy them cheap pm me.
#52
12-06-2010, 07:35 AM
So I'm chiming back in like I said I would.
So far the tires have been great sound and comfort wise, They ride nicely and they absorb some of the harshness of the road pretty good. nothing ground breaking though on rough highway pavement, It's no roller but its better then before.
Tires grip nicely so far and I haven't been able to spin them at all in the rain or coming out of a turn.
Unfortunately they are heavier then the Conti SSR All Seasons I had on the car before... (!?) This surprised me a lot. The conti's were 21lbs a tire where as the 215/45/17's are 24 lbs a tire!! I wanted to go down!!!! Even going back to the 205/45/17 size they are still 1lbs heavier then the conti's
I believe as a result that I am getting worse mileage with these tires.
Before I could fill up a tank and before the first 3 gallon bar would click off I would be at anywhere between 100 and 120 miles highway. Now, And confirmed last night I only got the odo to 80 miles before the light clicked off. I've been averaging about 25 mpg by the end of the week is what the car tells me, Doing the same route earlier this year I was averaging at least 28 and as high as 33, But now I have a hard time keeping it at 30 for the whole week.
yesterday I drove 100 miles, with an average speed up the highway (first 50 miles) of 61 MPH (traveling 63mph cruise control) and only was able to get the car up to 38mpg where as before I could have gotten it up to at least 41 mpg.
On the way down (the last 50 miles) I was only getting 35.3 according to the computer (traveling 68 mph cruise control)
Before I was able to get 38 mpg while doing 70-73 mph cruise control over this same highway trip.
idk what to do... Is anyone else with these tires experiencing the same effects? Anyone with the tire size 205/45/17 have anything to say? Better mileage? worse? same?
Ride comfort on the smaller size with a shorter sidewall?
Its appreciated as I still have a two weeks of my 30 day trial period from tire rack.
So far the tires have been great sound and comfort wise, They ride nicely and they absorb some of the harshness of the road pretty good. nothing ground breaking though on rough highway pavement, It's no roller but its better then before.
Tires grip nicely so far and I haven't been able to spin them at all in the rain or coming out of a turn.
Unfortunately they are heavier then the Conti SSR All Seasons I had on the car before... (!?) This surprised me a lot. The conti's were 21lbs a tire where as the 215/45/17's are 24 lbs a tire!! I wanted to go down!!!! Even going back to the 205/45/17 size they are still 1lbs heavier then the conti's
I believe as a result that I am getting worse mileage with these tires.
Before I could fill up a tank and before the first 3 gallon bar would click off I would be at anywhere between 100 and 120 miles highway. Now, And confirmed last night I only got the odo to 80 miles before the light clicked off. I've been averaging about 25 mpg by the end of the week is what the car tells me, Doing the same route earlier this year I was averaging at least 28 and as high as 33, But now I have a hard time keeping it at 30 for the whole week.
yesterday I drove 100 miles, with an average speed up the highway (first 50 miles) of 61 MPH (traveling 63mph cruise control) and only was able to get the car up to 38mpg where as before I could have gotten it up to at least 41 mpg.
On the way down (the last 50 miles) I was only getting 35.3 according to the computer (traveling 68 mph cruise control)
Before I was able to get 38 mpg while doing 70-73 mph cruise control over this same highway trip.
idk what to do... Is anyone else with these tires experiencing the same effects? Anyone with the tire size 205/45/17 have anything to say? Better mileage? worse? same?
Ride comfort on the smaller size with a shorter sidewall?
Its appreciated as I still have a two weeks of my 30 day trial period from tire rack.
#53
12-06-2010, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2007
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I got these tires about a month ago.
The ride comfort and noise levels are unbelievable. Better than: the stock runflats, Goodyear Eagle F1 (summer), Dunlop Direzza Sport (summer), and Bridgestone Ponteza (all seasons).
The grip is lacking. It feels so loose in the corners. The Pontezas had much better dry handling.
SNOW TEST
I had the opportunity this morning to test these out in the snow heading to work. 2 inches of snow. The grip is mediocre. It's what you would expect from all seasons. So Pat's Fan, if you are fine with your stock all seasons the Avid Envigor's will be fine for you.
I, on the other hand, have decided to buy some Blizzaks. I had trouble getting up the driveway to my office, and I just got a job in Pittsburgh where it's nothing but hills. So there is no way these tires will be able to get me around there.
The ride comfort and noise levels are unbelievable. Better than: the stock runflats, Goodyear Eagle F1 (summer), Dunlop Direzza Sport (summer), and Bridgestone Ponteza (all seasons).
The grip is lacking. It feels so loose in the corners. The Pontezas had much better dry handling.
SNOW TEST
I had the opportunity this morning to test these out in the snow heading to work. 2 inches of snow. The grip is mediocre. It's what you would expect from all seasons. So Pat's Fan, if you are fine with your stock all seasons the Avid Envigor's will be fine for you.
I, on the other hand, have decided to buy some Blizzaks. I had trouble getting up the driveway to my office, and I just got a job in Pittsburgh where it's nothing but hills. So there is no way these tires will be able to get me around there.
#54
12-06-2010, 08:49 AM
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Peter314,
It seems odd that a 3 pound difference would make such a drastic effect on your mileage. Perhaps it is something else that coincidentally popped up the same time you put the tires on.
A little bit ago my mileage dipped 3-4mpg and my check engine light came on. The dealer said it was because of freezing temperatures and the gas stations were still selling summer fuel.. two tanks later the light is off and my mileage is back to normal.
My mileage hasn't changed at all since I bought these tires (and I have hand-checked my mileage on every single tank since I bought the car).
It seems odd that a 3 pound difference would make such a drastic effect on your mileage. Perhaps it is something else that coincidentally popped up the same time you put the tires on.
A little bit ago my mileage dipped 3-4mpg and my check engine light came on. The dealer said it was because of freezing temperatures and the gas stations were still selling summer fuel.. two tanks later the light is off and my mileage is back to normal.
My mileage hasn't changed at all since I bought these tires (and I have hand-checked my mileage on every single tank since I bought the car).
#55
12-06-2010, 09:27 AM
4th Gear
#56
12-06-2010, 09:45 AM
Peter314,
It seems odd that a 3 pound difference would make such a drastic effect on your mileage. Perhaps it is something else that coincidentally popped up the same time you put the tires on.
A little bit ago my mileage dipped 3-4mpg and my check engine light came on. The dealer said it was because of freezing temperatures and the gas stations were still selling summer fuel.. two tanks later the light is off and my mileage is back to normal.
My mileage hasn't changed at all since I bought these tires (and I have hand-checked my mileage on every single tank since I bought the car).
It seems odd that a 3 pound difference would make such a drastic effect on your mileage. Perhaps it is something else that coincidentally popped up the same time you put the tires on.
A little bit ago my mileage dipped 3-4mpg and my check engine light came on. The dealer said it was because of freezing temperatures and the gas stations were still selling summer fuel.. two tanks later the light is off and my mileage is back to normal.
My mileage hasn't changed at all since I bought these tires (and I have hand-checked my mileage on every single tank since I bought the car).
interesting.. I was also thinking that it could be the fuel that they are selling now in the New England area being winter now... Even though there's still no snow.. (which is fine by me!)
No lights on the dash, no strange performance from the car. I've been keeping track of the tire pressure regularly, I have them set to 38psi as to factory spec, But I know that is for the 205/45/17 that came with the car. I wonder how things like tire wear and fuel economy will fair if I bump it up to 40 psi.
#57
12-06-2010, 09:59 AM
#58
12-06-2010, 05:35 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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I'm still riding with my Advan Sport Summer Tires. They have gripped well even in freezing weather. I will give an update on how they do in mild snow when we get some here in Philly.
When it snows heavily I'll park the MINI and take the Audi with Quatro to work. I'm more into handling and grip than sacrificing it with all season tires for three nasty snowfalls a year.
Regarding gas mileage, the unsprung weight of heavier tires will slightly decrease miles per gallon. But the true culprit is probably that your new tires have better traction than the previous pair, and that surely reduces the mileage. The stock tires are made to grip less and get better mileage. The factory setting of 38PSI also make for less rolling resistance and better mileage. All so MINI can claim high mileage for their cars.
I run with 36PSI which gives a softer ride and better grip but worse miles per gallon. Honestly, I paid $37K for the JCW because I wanted a car with performance, good handling, and decent looks. I'm not going to sacrifice driving enjoyment just to save 3 miles per gallon.
My 2 cents.
When it snows heavily I'll park the MINI and take the Audi with Quatro to work. I'm more into handling and grip than sacrificing it with all season tires for three nasty snowfalls a year.
Regarding gas mileage, the unsprung weight of heavier tires will slightly decrease miles per gallon. But the true culprit is probably that your new tires have better traction than the previous pair, and that surely reduces the mileage. The stock tires are made to grip less and get better mileage. The factory setting of 38PSI also make for less rolling resistance and better mileage. All so MINI can claim high mileage for their cars.
I run with 36PSI which gives a softer ride and better grip but worse miles per gallon. Honestly, I paid $37K for the JCW because I wanted a car with performance, good handling, and decent looks. I'm not going to sacrifice driving enjoyment just to save 3 miles per gallon.
My 2 cents.
#59
12-06-2010, 05:53 PM
I'm still riding with my Advan Sport Summer Tires. They have gripped well even in freezing weather. I will give an update on how they do in mild snow when we get some here in Philly.
When it snows heavily I'll park the MINI and take the Audi with Quatro to work. I'm more into handling and grip than sacrificing it with all season tires for three nasty snowfalls a year.
Regarding gas mileage, the unsprung weight of heavier tires will slightly decrease miles per gallon. But the true culprit is probably that your new tires have better traction than the previous pair, and that surely reduces the mileage. The stock tires are made to grip less and get better mileage. The factory setting of 38PSI also make for less rolling resistance and better mileage. All so MINI can claim high mileage for their cars.
I run with 36PSI which gives a softer ride and better grip but worse miles per gallon. Honestly, I paid $37K for the JCW because I wanted a car with performance, good handling, and decent looks. I'm not going to sacrifice driving enjoyment just to save 3 miles per gallon.
My 2 cents.
When it snows heavily I'll park the MINI and take the Audi with Quatro to work. I'm more into handling and grip than sacrificing it with all season tires for three nasty snowfalls a year.
Regarding gas mileage, the unsprung weight of heavier tires will slightly decrease miles per gallon. But the true culprit is probably that your new tires have better traction than the previous pair, and that surely reduces the mileage. The stock tires are made to grip less and get better mileage. The factory setting of 38PSI also make for less rolling resistance and better mileage. All so MINI can claim high mileage for their cars.
I run with 36PSI which gives a softer ride and better grip but worse miles per gallon. Honestly, I paid $37K for the JCW because I wanted a car with performance, good handling, and decent looks. I'm not going to sacrifice driving enjoyment just to save 3 miles per gallon.
My 2 cents.
After they wore down to the wear bars it's my understanding that they would have a higher rolling resistance because now more of the tire is touching the ground.
I'm just surprised that I'm seeing such a drop compared to what I was getting before while maintaining the same level of grip if not more or less.
But oh well. They are good tires they ride nicely, they are quiet and they grip very well. I have yet to spin the wheels or slide.
Then again we'll see how that goes in spring when I have all of my mods
#60
12-06-2010, 07:07 PM
Join Date: May 2008
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have you checked your air pressure? Now that it's cold in the northeast you might want to make sure you bump it up....I always run 36 psi cold no matter what time of year.
Also here's a copy / paste:
9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites
1. More idling
This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.
Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).
2. Low tire pressure
Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).
3. Increased rolling resistance
Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).
4. Crappy road conditions
It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)
5. Lower average engine temperature
In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.
A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).
Also related...
6. Higher average lubricant viscosity
Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.
Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.
7. Weaker gasoline
Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)
8. Higher electrical loads
In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:
- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)
9. More aerodynamic drag
No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).
A vehicle�s aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% (source).
Also here's a copy / paste:
9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites
1. More idling
This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.
Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).
2. Low tire pressure
Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).
3. Increased rolling resistance
Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).
4. Crappy road conditions
It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)
5. Lower average engine temperature
In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.
A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).
Also related...
6. Higher average lubricant viscosity
Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.
Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.
7. Weaker gasoline
Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)
8. Higher electrical loads
In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:
- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)
9. More aerodynamic drag
No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).
A vehicle�s aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% (source).
#61
12-06-2010, 07:40 PM
have you checked your air pressure? Now that it's cold in the northeast you might want to make sure you bump it up....I always run 36 psi cold no matter what time of year.
Also here's a copy / paste:
9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites
1. More idling
This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.
Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).
2. Low tire pressure
Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).
3. Increased rolling resistance
Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).
4. Crappy road conditions
It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)
5. Lower average engine temperature
In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.
A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).
Also related...
6. Higher average lubricant viscosity
Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.
Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.
7. Weaker gasoline
Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)
8. Higher electrical loads
In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:
- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)
9. More aerodynamic drag
No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).
A vehicle�s aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% (source).
Also here's a copy / paste:
9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites
1. More idling
This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.
Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).
2. Low tire pressure
Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).
3. Increased rolling resistance
Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).
4. Crappy road conditions
It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)
5. Lower average engine temperature
In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.
A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).
Also related...
6. Higher average lubricant viscosity
Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.
Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.
7. Weaker gasoline
Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)
8. Higher electrical loads
In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:
- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)
9. More aerodynamic drag
No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).
A vehicle�s aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% (source).
That is actually really helpful, A lot of those things really make sense. As a studying engineer I should have thought about the air density changing with the colder temps. My fluid dynamics teachers gave us a great example about a baseball traveling further in hotter or colder weather.
I knew about the winter mixes when it comes to fuel too but I was also thinking about the rest of the engine fluids, but I dismissed it thinking about how my mileage should be once the car is up to temp but I guess that is a pretty big factor too.
Yea I guess it's just winter
I'll report back in the spring. Hopefully though before I get any mods on or new wheels... Enkei PF01's mmmmmm deliciously light, cutting out all of that extra fat with some 15lbs wheels that look sweetttt
#62
12-07-2010, 05:31 AM
4th Gear
It's amazing how many people still swear by extended idling warm-ups, thinking they're actually good for the car (or rationalizing it to facilitate their own comfort in a nice warm car, I don't know). When you tell them it's better for the car to start it cold and (very gently) start driving it right away, they look at you like YOU'RE crazy.
Generally, depending on how dismissive they are on this advice, I make a determination on whether it's even worth trying to explain to them that their long idle-method does nothing to warm up anything else mechanical in the car other than the engine itself (and it may not even be good for the engine either). I just let these dullards go on their blissful merry way racking up all kinds of unnecessary premature wear on their drivetrains, as they usually just simply hop into their toasty warm idling cars and cruise off at normal warmed-up speeds! (What's even worse is people who actually know it's wrong, but cite added convenience and/or the fact that the car is leased, as their reasons LOL.)
Generally, depending on how dismissive they are on this advice, I make a determination on whether it's even worth trying to explain to them that their long idle-method does nothing to warm up anything else mechanical in the car other than the engine itself (and it may not even be good for the engine either). I just let these dullards go on their blissful merry way racking up all kinds of unnecessary premature wear on their drivetrains, as they usually just simply hop into their toasty warm idling cars and cruise off at normal warmed-up speeds! (What's even worse is people who actually know it's wrong, but cite added convenience and/or the fact that the car is leased, as their reasons LOL.)
#63
12-07-2010, 07:05 AM
Excellent Info!
have you checked your air pressure? Now that it's cold in the northeast you might want to make sure you bump it up....I always run 36 psi cold no matter what time of year.
Also here's a copy / paste:
9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites
1. More idling
This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.
Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).
2. Low tire pressure
Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).
3. Increased rolling resistance
Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).
4. Crappy road conditions
It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)
5. Lower average engine temperature
In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.
A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).
Also related...
6. Higher average lubricant viscosity
Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.
Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.
7. Weaker gasoline
Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)
8. Higher electrical loads
In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:
- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)
9. More aerodynamic drag
No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).
A vehicle�s aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% (source).
Also here's a copy / paste:
9 reasons your winter fuel economy bites
1. More idling
This should be a no-brainer, yet parked idling cars are a common sight in cold weather. Resist the temptation to idle your car to warm it up. An idling engine gets 0 mpg. Consider also that idling the engine does nothing to warm up the tires and drivetrain.
Even in the coldest weather, you can begin driving after 30 seconds from a cold start - keep speeds low/moderate and use gentle acceleration until the temperature gauge starts to climb (source).
2. Low tire pressure
Of course you're smart enough to keep up your tire pressure as the temperature drops, right? A 10-degree (F) change in ambient temperature equates to a 1 psi change in tire pressure (source). Fuel economy declines 0.4 percent for every 1 psi drop (source).
3. Increased rolling resistance
Even if you're completely attentive to proper tire pressure, cold ambient temperatures will still cause your tires to return worse mileage. That's because a tire's shape isn't completely round - the sidewall bulges out at the bottom, and where the tread meets the road the small contact patch is actually flat. As the tire rotates, it constantly deforms to this shape, and this deformation requires more energy when the rubber is cold and hard. Rolling resistance at 0 degrees F is 20% greater than at 80 degrees (source 1, source 2).
4. Crappy road conditions
It's increased rolling resistance of another kind: driving through slush and snow. And then there's its wasteful polar (no pun intended) opposite: no friction at all! (A.K.A. wheelspin on ice.)
5. Lower average engine temperature
In the winter, an engine takes longer to reach operating temperature and cools off faster when shut off. Since the engine management system orders up a richer mixture when cold (proportionately more fuel in the air/fuel combination), more fuel is being burned overall.
A block heater can offset this problem (improving fuel economy by 10% in sub-zero conditions - source), as can garage parking, and combining trips (to minimize the number of cold/hot cycles).
Also related...
6. Higher average lubricant viscosity
Engine oil thickens as it cools. So does transmission and differential fluids and even bearing grease. Significantly more energy is needed to overcome the added drag these cold lubricants cause.
Using synthetic fluids can address this problem, since their viscosity changes less at extreme temperatures than traditional mineral fluids.
7. Weaker gasoline
Gasoline doesn't vaporize readily at very cold temperatures. So oil companies formulate fuel differently for cold-weather markets in the winter. Unfortunately, the changes that provide better cold vaporization characteristics also result in less available energy for combustion. You won't get as far on a liter of winter gas as you will on a liter of summer gas. (Source.)
8. Higher electrical loads
In colder temps, you use electrical accessories more often:
- lights (in higher lattitudes it's darker in the winter)
- rear window defroster (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right?)
- heater blower motor (I don't have a/c, so this isn't balanced out during warm conditions); heated seats/mirrors
- windshield washer pump (because it's easier than using the ice scraper, right? And for frequently cleaning off dirty road spray.)
9. More aerodynamic drag
No, I'm not referring to the layer of snow you're too lazy to brush off the top of the car (though that would hurt mpg too).
A vehicle�s aerodynamic drag is proportional to air density, and the density increases as temperature drops. For every 10 degree F drop in temperature, aerodynamic drag increases by 2% (source).
I believe my next set of AS Tires will be these Yokohama ENvigor's.
Stephen
#64
12-07-2010, 02:07 PM
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rockland / Westchester NY
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I do warm the car up for about 2 minutes until the I'm idling at about 0.5 on the tach. I take it very easy until I feel the car is warm although I'd never know it since we don't have temperature gauges....pretty ridiculous.
For my Subaru, I let it warm up for a good 8 minutes or so with a remote starter. I've put them in all of my cars and have found it seems to prolong the life of the car (although I have no way of knowing if it would have changed anything otherwise since I have no control sample)....
For my Subaru, I let it warm up for a good 8 minutes or so with a remote starter. I've put them in all of my cars and have found it seems to prolong the life of the car (although I have no way of knowing if it would have changed anything otherwise since I have no control sample)....
#65
12-07-2010, 02:16 PM
Gauges
I do warm the car up for about 2 minutes until the I'm idling at about 0.5 on the tach. I take it very easy until I feel the car is warm although I'd never know it since we don't have temperature gauges....pretty ridiculous.
For my Subaru, I let it warm up for a good 8 minutes or so with a remote starter. I've put them in all of my cars and have found it seems to prolong the life of the car (although I have no way of knowing if it would have changed anything otherwise since I have no control sample)....
For my Subaru, I let it warm up for a good 8 minutes or so with a remote starter. I've put them in all of my cars and have found it seems to prolong the life of the car (although I have no way of knowing if it would have changed anything otherwise since I have no control sample)....
http://www.mini4fun.info/09_MCa_Gaug...6_Photos..html
S.
#66
12-12-2010, 11:00 PM
So, I am getting these over the Kumho tire this time around. The reviews and whatnot have given me enough reason to try these. Now, should I try these in:
175/65-15
195/60-15
I think the OEM size will be sufficient but I want to be sure they will still keep up with driving spiritedly like the conti procontact was able to. Thanks guys
175/65-15
195/60-15
I think the OEM size will be sufficient but I want to be sure they will still keep up with driving spiritedly like the conti procontact was able to. Thanks guys
#67
12-27-2010, 08:58 PM
Also thinking about buying this tire.
195/55R16 ones. I currently have the stock tires which were Goodyear Excellence Run Flats and I just wanted to check on the experience with the TPMS when anyone changed out of the old tires. Do they play nice? This might be a silly question, but the TPMS system I have currently will work with these tires as well right?
Thanks.
Thanks.
#68
12-28-2010, 06:30 AM
4th Gear
#72
12-29-2010, 05:56 PM
4th Gear
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Muscle Shoals, AL
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Tell me about it!! The brake dust is killing me so I am about to get black/silver wheels with the Yoko's. Just having trouble deciding which wheels to go with now that I have finally decided on tires!
#74
12-30-2010, 09:56 AM
These are the BBS R99's. They were powder coated black before I got them. They come in three colors from the factory. Anthracite is a great choice if you're concerned about brake dust. As a suggestion, use "wheel wax" as a means to ease the cleaning process...
Hey ke4, I see a red MINI with the black wheels in the background of one of your gallery pics. That's a nice combo... What wheels does he have?
Hey ke4, I see a red MINI with the black wheels in the background of one of your gallery pics. That's a nice combo... What wheels does he have?
Last edited by JBC4317; 12-30-2010 at 10:19 AM.
#75
12-30-2010, 03:42 PM
2nd Gear
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Southern California
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I just replaced the OEM Goodyear Excellence (at 29K) with the Yokohama Avid Envigors 195/55/16. I have the pressure set at the factory recommended 33 lbs front and rear. The ride is a little softer and they are quieter under most road conditions. With the Goodyears, I could not tell much difference in steering with sport mode on or off. With the Envigors, the sport mode on/off difference is substantial. With sport mode off the steering is lighter but you can still feel the road. With sport mode on, it tightens up to about how the Goodyears felt.
I took it through some twisty canyon roads (Topanga and Malibu Cyns in SoCal) and the handling is very good. I pushed it fairly hard and tossed it back and forth and it went where it was pointed without a squeel or feeling like I was losing grip. It is supposed to rain in the next few days so I'll see how they grip under wet conditions.
I do notice a slight increase in noise (whine?) when going around curves but I'm not sure if it is the tires. It seems to be there whether under power or coasting even on gentle curves. I may just be hearing something from the engine or drivetrain that is more noticeable with the quieter tires. If anyone has noticed something like this and knows what it is, please post.
So far so good. Hopefully, they will get even better when they are broken in. All in all, they seem to have met my goals of softer and quieter ride, equal or better handling, and much longer expected tread life.
I took it through some twisty canyon roads (Topanga and Malibu Cyns in SoCal) and the handling is very good. I pushed it fairly hard and tossed it back and forth and it went where it was pointed without a squeel or feeling like I was losing grip. It is supposed to rain in the next few days so I'll see how they grip under wet conditions.
I do notice a slight increase in noise (whine?) when going around curves but I'm not sure if it is the tires. It seems to be there whether under power or coasting even on gentle curves. I may just be hearing something from the engine or drivetrain that is more noticeable with the quieter tires. If anyone has noticed something like this and knows what it is, please post.
So far so good. Hopefully, they will get even better when they are broken in. All in all, they seem to have met my goals of softer and quieter ride, equal or better handling, and much longer expected tread life.