The Wilwood factory 11.75 and 12.2 kits are worth considering. Actually the two kits are the same for the most part; only the overall diameter of the rotors is different. It's just what parts you put in the box- caliper type (booted or ss piston) rotor type (plain, slotted, drilled) and pad compound choice. The brackets are supplied with a barrel spacer to allow the radial mount to be adjusted for either diameter.

Why mention this? Because one could 'start' with a 11.75 and easily move to a 12.2 by simply replacing the rotor rings and installing that spacer when moving from 15 to 16+ wheels.

Both kits could be had in "TCE custom" form converting them to 1.00" rotor applications for additional rotor mass and fit with track pads also. In fact....I put one of those up in the Vendor section a couple of days ago.

As for wheel fit, both diameters would require some modest wheel clearance whereas the "TCE versions" would require more room to accommodate the wider rotors.

 

Forgot about that--that's another really nice option. 15 inch Kosei's clear the 11.75 Wilwood kit easily (I used to have that), MBCoops still runs this setup, and, with air ducts, works great for him.

But if you're considering going to the 12.2, you'd want at least a 16 inch wheel to start with. Thing is, if you're tracking, you're going to wind up needing to replace rotors anyway at some point, so switching from 11.75 to 12.2 isn't a big deal. I never ran that 1 inch rotor, but that's a nice option to have, especially if it's available in 12.2, that should be a bulletproof setup.

The pluses of the Wilwood kit is it has the easiest pad changes out there, and lots of available pads. Also you have fantastic support with Todd.

The only thing I didn't like about the Wilwood is the safety wiring, but it's not that big of a deal.

 

Oddly...I scorned Wilwood recently on this. They have a number of "online videos" that show build ups and installs. Great idea. Problem was that not a single one of the 4-5 random ones I looked at showed their own shop safety wiring the bolts. Often mentioned was "Red Loctite the bolts...." etc and not a single image of the back side of the rotor showing the un wired bolts.

What's that old saying; Do as I say not as I do?

 

I really would rather NOT get big brakes. I think I may pick up some OEM 15s for cheap in the classifieds for now and re-evaluate later if necessary.

My boyfriend and I are starting to talk about picking up a first gen Miata, E30 or E36 to share as a track car. If I do that then there is no reason to track prep the MINI. It's all up in the air right now and we wouldn't be buying anything until next year, but it is starting to look like a really good idea.

 

There is a thread in NAM about wheel fitment with BBKs...https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...ated-list.html

As for 15" wheels, if you are going with street tires there is not much out there size wise. You can get wider street tires in the 16" and 17". That might be better. Look at Tirerack for tires that you might want versus wheel size. In the ADO8 there was very little weight difference between a 16" and 17" (1 lb) and the wheel weight difference was about the same (looking at OZ as an example). In a 17" you can get a 215-40 or 45 on the car with no problem.

Of course if you are going with a 15" with R compound, that appears to be a different story. You might want to check if the stock 15" are wide enough and there might not be much weight savings over the stock 16". As for fitment of aftermarket wheels just look up the stock Just-a-Mini (they come with 15s) on Tirerack, there are a bunch of wheels listed.

Just to complicate things even more, I am finding out that wider, lower profile tires are more sensitive to camber and the stock MCS is not good with this. Again a good thread: https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...djustment.html
there is even a note from CCT1 about getting -1 deg on an R53

 

It does require a big chunk of time to safety wire, but well worth the effort for piece of mind.

 

Eddie, one thing to consider is wether you're going with dedicated track rims or not. My 15's with R-comps are for the track. My everday set of rims are 16's, although if I could, I'd probably run 205/50/15's for the street; there should be plenty of tires available for the street in this size (long story short, at the time I needed a set of street rims, there wasn't a set of 15's immediately available that would clear my brakes. There are now....). 205/50/15's work just fine on the track too, but I like the 225/45/15's better, but the selection for street tires is smaller.

You can have it both ways--15's with a nice selection for your R-comps for track days, or 16's (or even 17's) with the corresponding selection in tires for the street. If you want only one set of rims though, 15's with 205/50/15's are still a consideration.

Camber is a totally seperate issue--to do it right up front you're talking camber plates, at least on the R53. You can adjust the rears fairly easily though (my rears are currently at -1.5 with a little bit of tow in, but I've got adjustable rear control arms and end links, don't remember if you can get there without those).

 

cct1 - Good point on the tires. I have a dedicated set of tires/rim with street tires for autocross, so I opted for the 17's to get the width. I use these on the track also (I am one of those 4-5 day'ers at this point). But I also found that without the camber adjustment (plates, that is) the wider tires didn't do me any good. At autocross I was rolling over onto the side walls (wore the triangles off) and this was with all sorts of different tire pressures (over 40 psi) and advice from the old time track people. I found the same thing at the track although not as extreme. I think the two are tied together in that aspect. If you are going to spend the money on wide R-compounds, camber plates will be the only way to get your money's worth out of them.

 

I don't even want to get into camber, lol. This car is not supported to be a track car, just a daily I track sometimes. But after seeing how my front left tire chunked at Willow Springs, camber is something of interest... reluctant interest.

But because I'm likely going to be getting a second car soon, I just don't think I want to spend big bucks making the MINI a track machine. I think a set of 15/16 inch OEM wheels wrapped in nice tires (I'll do tire research before I buy wheels) + the brake upgrades I've already done + maybe brake ducts if I can find a set cheap or jerry rig it myself will be all of the track mods I do to the MINI. That money that would be spent on a big brake kit and camber plates could easily buy a Miata...

Thank you to everyone on your info and advice. If I have some sort of brilliant break through on brakes I'll make sure to let you know.

 

Check the offsets on Team Dynamics wheels--they're popular for the Miata. You might be able to get 15's that will work on both the MINI and the Miata...

I'd do what you're doing--doesn't make much sense to go overboard on the MINI if you're thinking about doing the Miata--can't really go wrong with a Miata...

 

I just did camber plates (fixed Ireland) because they were not too expensive and I could do the work my self. I went with the fixed plate as a compromise. This is my DD also. From what I could figure those are the one thing that seemed to buy a lot of bang for the buck for the Mini Cooper beyond the tires and the brake pads and not affect it for being a DD. I'll see over then next 3 weeks how it works out (couple of autocrosses and a 2 day track event). But also, I don't want to do up a separate car for this sort of thing. A lot of good points have been made here and they are pretty much valid for any car. All good things to consider.

A Miata though - the Mini's nemesis - However a little bit seems to go a long ways with those. It will be interesting to hear how this allow works out for you. On the track they can be formitable and I have seen them out - doing some purpose-built cars

 

FYI - I put in the Carbotech XP-10s up front and found that they are about as agressive as the Hawk HP+. Seems that either would be good for the track. Although with all the comments about being better at modulation with the Carbo's, that will be my first choice.

 

This seems to be a learn as you go exercise. Some of us listen better than others and I guess I am in the latter group. Since I was last on here Dustin at AutoXCooper hooked me up with a set of Carbotech XP-10s for the front and XP-8s for the rears. Off to Watkins Glen for 2 days of brake testing. That track, for a Mini, is all up hill. Most of the braking is downhill and it takes forever to get speed back as at that point you are going back uphill. The Carbo’s were great. Fade free and easy to modulate. Then the rotors took over and decided that they would muck things up. I was using cross-drilled. I know everyone told me they would be a problem. But no one told me about the holes plugging up and brake material being dragged across the rotor faces which built up “lumpies”. By the end of the second day it felt like I was braking while going over a washboard.

Back to basics – stock rotors. Rebedded the Carbo’s and went to Monticello. The day could not have been better. Everything performed fantastically. No fade; no lumpies. And it was a warm day – mid-80’s. At the end of the day I still had half of the front pads left. 3 days on the first half, I figured another 2 days on the other half, at least.

Boy could I have not been more wrong. I headed to Monticello with half the pads left thinking no problem (packed a second set just in case though). Toward the end of the last session (2 hr of driving) the brakes started to feel “funny”. They acted like they faded out, the peddle would go down a little more and then everything was fine. I will admit that I was a little harder on them. But when I went to change the wheels to my street wheel/tires, this is what I found (see thumbnails, sorry I don't know how to upload pictures)

The pads next to the pistons were over heated and the metal backing plate bent around the piston. The rubber boots on the pistons were over heated and were destroyed. And the Aftermarket rotors started to shred. It is like they were cast wrong and have a seam under the surface. You can see where the surface is worn away and that seam is exposed. While I didn't feel anything I would attribute to this, I do think that this contributed to the accelerated pad wear. Anyone out there have any thoughts about the rotors? By the way, I did put some brake temperature paint on the rotors and I am in the yellow zone (1100 to 1300 deg F). So I think that the rotor size is OK for my current experience level and the XP-10s are about perfect.

So a few things I am taking away from this. 1 - with stock calipers, don't look at the side of the pads to see if you have enough to go back out on the track. If I had gone out one more time with these, I would have lost my brakes. 2 - as you move up in track experience, make a brake upgrade your 1st mod. I never would have guessed that I would have done this to my brakes before seeing this. 3 - I do think that at a minimum, even on your first track day, a brake pad upgrade to a real race pad for the fronts is a must. 4 - at my level (intermediate level driver) I can only expect to get 3, maybe 4 days out of a set of race pads with stock calipers.

As for me, my season is done. I am reassessing what I have learned and working on a brake up grade. My objectives are to retain my 16" stock street wheels for the crap Northeast roads. But I think that a multi piston caliper is a must to even out the brake pad pressure on both sides of the rotors. I would not expect rotor temps to go up (unless I learn to brake later or go to R compounds), but I do expect this to help with pad wear and temperatures. The pads on the multi piston calipers are larger, which should give better heat dissipation and have better wear. I will stick with the Carbotechs. One other thing - I have read and been told not to mix brands of pads. So it will be Carbotech XP-10s for the track and and will use the Carbotech Bobcats for the street. I just hope that changing pads with the multi piston calipers is easy

Everyone, feel free to comment and add your experiences. I have proven that I don't listen well , but I am learning

 

Eddie,

You need a BBK my friend. The TCE plus 3 is what I have now. Changing pads is real easy. But getting lightweight track rims that fit them is not so easy.

Unfortunately I have zero days on the track after I installed it.

 

+1. Stock rears are fine, but you need a BBK for the fronts. You're officially better than your brakes at this point.

You have two options: go with a BBK with a wider rotor (what I did); it allows me to run track friendly 15 inch rims. Or, go with a BBK with a wider diameter, like Slinger. Either way is fine, but if you're running 16's, I'd probably go with a TCE kit with a bigger diameter. Call Todd at TCE to find what will fit your rims--he'll get you better info than any of us can here.

And get AIR to the brakes. Numerous ways to do this too--I put in the Way motor works ducts, Sneed makes a different type of kit, or do a home made one--this is the first year I've gotten a full track season out of the rotors (I use a 1.25 inch treated rotor, air ducts, carbotech's XP12's up front, XP8's in the rears. It's taken me four years to dial in this combo, finally got it right this year).

 

Cct1, that is sound advise.

Eddie, remember you have to drive home and that means you have to understand the term "pace yourself". I have seen you drive and you are one late braking maniac.

 

I'm also a big fan of the Carbotech XP-12 front, XP-10 rear, with cooling ducts. Another thing that I do is have a second set of rotors that I just use for track days. So when I change pads I change rotors at the same time, that way I do not have to seat pads every time I change. It also means that I will have brakes to get home, if something unexpected happens.

The brake cooling kit I am currently using is from MINImania http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NMB4000/InvDetail.cfm

Seems to work as advertised, you just need to be a little careful mounting to be sure it is securely fastened. It will also reduce available steering lock a little bit, not really a problem on the track, mostly just around the paddock. With a little planning it isn't a problem there either.

If I decide I want to take out the fog lights and turn that opening into brake cooling then there are two kits available; from MINImania http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NMB4010/InvDetail.cfm , and from Way Motor Works http://www.waymotorworks.com/mini-brake-ducts.html

Maybe even keep the kit I have now and add the WMW ducts through the front fogs. Since the WMW ducts direct air at the caliper and the MINImania directs air to the rotor.

 

That's an excellent suggestion on the extra set of rotors. Even for the BBK crowd, however far more costly. Having both spares and dedicated rotors per pad keeps pad transfer and compatibility issues down. Sometimes moving from brand A to brand B with pads can be quite a problem. Here you can also do the drilled look for the street and HD slotted only for the track- and not worry about cracking.

I generally advocate rear rotor kits for hard track day users also. Not for improved braking but for the added mass and efficiency. Most guys buy hot-rod rear pads only to overheat the rotor and boil fluid. The rotor adds the torque value desired but at a lower temp and does not require any race pads making it suitable for the street too.

 

Funny as most race teams use the stock/JCW brakes with race pads and rotors.

RSR uses the JCW calipers.

 

That's cause the rules do NOT allow for an aftermarket caliper. Otherwise I know they would love to remove that weight.

 

True, but they still use them to good effect. The argument that you need bigger brakes is false if they can use them and win races. They abuse those brakes much more than a track day would.

 

I had been thinking of just going to the Wilwood DP6 caliper because it fit both the stock rotors and stock wheels. But after looking at the cheap aftermarket rotors I was using and the laminations in the casting that came though and became a "cheese grater" (see pictures above), I have concluded these are not the way to go. The next options is to go with Mini rotors or a performance rotor. However these are about as expensive as the 12.2" rotors in TCE Plus 1 kit and no rubber boots to deal with. And the rotors are larger diameter than the stock, a bonus. This setup looks to be more track oriented than the Plus 2 kit and less limiting for me than the Plus 3 kit. By the TCE web page the Plus 1 with the 12.2" rotors should fit 16" wheels - I know - I need to check. This looks like a resonable setup for what I am doing.

For now I am thinking of staying with the Carbo XP10s and 8s in the back. My brake temp paint says that I am right in the middle of their temperature range. Plus with better calipers, the heating of the pads should be evened out.

Cooling - yes But first I should say that I have done all of this track stuff with the dust shields still in place. I have to believe that is the first thing that needs to go. It must block a lot air from getting to the brakes, especially the piston side pad. It does surprise me that I have found nothing about removing those here on NAM (or am I not looking hard enough?). I have a JCW brake duct kit that I am going to try. They look cool But I would expect that they will do a good job of flooding the brakes (rotors and pads) with air. The hose route probably does well a directing the air, but the hose itself will have a lot of flow resistance and may not be much better. But I am guessing here and could about a million racers be wrong

Extra pads - yes; Rotors - I will have to think about that. Do good ones fail that often that it worth carrying the extras around?

 

How else am to catch the Z06s and GT3s that blow by me on the straights? I just wait to let off the gas until I am about 2 car lengths off their tail, hit the brakes and hope like hell that I haven't worn my pads out

 

And how much do those cars weigh? And how much air are they getting to the brakes? Those race cars are a TOTALLY different animal. And if you talk to them, like Way said, they use them because they have to.

And the new JCW brakes are essentially a 4-pot BBK--they are not the same as the old JCW's. Why do you think MINI upgraded to a 4-pot caliper, which is essentiallyt the same type of setup everyone is recommending here?

Point is, for those who do track work, we don't HAVE to compromise on brakes--we have the luxury of going with a BBK better suited to the track than the old JCW's or stock brakes. It's your decision. I tried telling my self stock brakes would be ok, then the old JCW's would be ok...What I have now is MUCH better. No offense, but too many people have gone down this road, including much better drivers than me, to recommend the stock brakes or old JCW's. Even if you doubt the performance difference (and the difference in performance, especially with fade, is dramatically better with a BBK), the weight savings alone makes it worthwhile.

 

Flip side is you lose more by screwing up your entrance and exits speeds than you gain by braking late...

Sometime when I'm catching up to a high HP car, I notice they start braking WAY late--trying to prevent from getting caught. I love it when that happens, because I know they're going to blow the turn.