Ok, first, I drained the brake fluid resoirvoire. I know, I know, bad car-guy.

I know I'll have ABS issues, and need to take it to dealer or get a tool to do the reset, but here's the bigger issue: for the life of me, I can't get the clutch slave and master to bleed properly, and I'm reading conflicting info on how to fix it.

My steps:

1. Open brake fluid res. Top it off with fluid.
2. Compress slave cylinder with a clamp
3. Crack bleed valve and bleed fluid on slave cylinder (I bleed with a vacuum bleeder, not a pressure bleeder), keeping fluid res full (back and forth, back and forth for the love of God, let it stop)
4. Pull fluid until runs clear of bubbles
5. Close valve
6. Remove clamp from slave valve
7. Go to car and pump clutch pedal 12 times. Oh, wait , the f'ing thing is dead, no pedal pressure.

I also tried:
2. Compress clutch pedal with 2x4 and the seat.
3. Crack the bleed valve
4. Try to compress the slave valve with a clamp, but since clutch was pressed, it won't compress.


I also tried:
1. Hook up an oil can with a small hose, put brake fluid in can
2. Open brake res
3. Compress slave valve with a clamp
4. Put hose on nipple of slave valve
5. Open bleed nipple and push fluid UP into slave and master letting air bubble up into brake res, but of course, fluid did not seem to want to go and the cheap Car Quest oil can leaked like a sieve all over the garage floor (hey, quit laughing).

So, dead pedal, and I'm frustrated and out of ways to try this. What did I do wrong?

 

Its tricky...
The only way you can really do it is with the slave cylinder compressed (theres a special tool) and a suction/pressure bleeder.
You MUST keep the reservoir full at all times. You cant bleed it and let the level drop or you will pull air into it and the pedal will just sink to the floor. ill say it again... Its not that easy and almost impossible without a pressure bleeder. Almost

 

Thanks Calz,
Yes, I am compressing the valve but with the arm to the clutch attached still, using a clamp to hold the arm and valve in the closed position. Is this the problem - I.e. The arm needs to come off to fully compress the valve?

I am using suction bleeder.

 

Check for fluid within the boot, the diaphragm may be torn.

Try placing a piece of wood between the slave plunger and the clutch release arm, instead of before the arm, only compress enough to remove spacing between the boot bellows, not so deep that it flattens.

Sounds like air in the master cylinder. The first thing to try is burping the reservoir, I use a pressure bleeder, so I don't know if it's possible with a vacuum bleeder. With the slave plunger depressed, and fluid level near the full mark, apply a few pounds pressure to the reservoir and abruptly release. If successful, air movement can be seen in the reservoir at the entrance to the master filler tube.

Once again I use a pressure bleeder, so I don't know if this step is valid, but it's the one that most always works, with slave compressed and pressure on the system, wiggle the clutch pedal in its fee-play space, bleed, and repeat. It may take a few tries both under pressure and off. A few ounces of fluid need to pass into the catch bottle for each bleed interval. Do not press the clutch pedal until the system is closed and the slave is free and connected to the release arm.

 

When I bleed the slave cylinders I unbolt the unit... just the 2 10mm bolts and use the special tool. Yes if you can use a C clamp thats fine just do not damage the push rod or the housing. Make sure it is fully compressed.
Fill the resevoir to the top and start bleeding
make sure the resevoir is always full and it takes a couple minutes.
By the Arm I take it you mean the pushrod that mechanically operates the clutch fork/release bearing assembley?
You also want to close the bleeder valve with the bleeder still under vacuum because when you take the bleeder off it will pull in air as soon as you leave the bleeder valve open not under vacuum (If that makes sense)
Its tricky.. i have never done it with a hand operated suction gun but it should be possible

 

Calz,
Yes, I think I get it now. After your comments, and after talking to Waylen at Way Motor Works (sorry Way, I know you were under a car at the time), I was NOT unbolting the slave cylinder from the car, and I don't think it was compressing all the way.

I thought the arm that is pushed by the slave was connected and would be a pain in the butt to remove, but it is just a ball socket that is held in place by tension. Neat.

So, of course when I got it loose and compressed it with a big Quick Clamp, and tried to loosen the PLASTIC bleed nipple, it was stripped, having been opened and closed so many times by yours truly.

Sigh. Looks like I need a new Slave just to get the nipple.

Question: Is there a replacement nipple that I could use that is metal? I know it might strip the threads if overtightened, but it would work, no?

 

Thanks k-huevo, your input is helpful as well. There is clearly no one, best way to do this, so I'll try what you and Calz have suggested and report back.

The slave cylinder is not leaking, but I did go ahead and purchase a new one since the bleed valve is worn out (stripped) on the outside plastic nut. $78 for a plastic bleed valve. Yikes.


smp

 

Another tip, air in the master is easier to coax out if the car is level or the rear slightly elevated.

 

Hey,
yeah, the factory instructions say to remove the slave... it is a hassle to bleed those. Removing the slave is the only way I have really been successful on a regular basis.
If you remove the plastic bleeder you can compare it to a brake bleeder screw. If they are the same I see no reason why you can not use a metal bleeder. If it was my car and I had a metal replacement bleeder screw I would use it for sure.

 

The bleeder valve is unique.

 

Ah, bummer. That explains why you have to unscrew it so far to get it to bleed though.

I have a new slave cylinder via BMW of Nashville. I'm going to go ahead and replace the entire thing since I have an '02.

 

Calz,
Nice blog by the way.... Keep it up.

 

I just flushed my brakes, but lacking the special tool, didn't do the clutch.

Should I just suck it up and get a pressure bleeder?

Note: Coming from the Miata world where there is a separate clutch reservoir, I spent quite a while looking for the reservoir on the MINI!

 

Thanks buddy... its a lot of WORK !!!!


Hey Eric,
yeah like my old GTS corolla yours has a second resevoir for just the clutch. In Mini/ BMW world everything uses the Brake Master...
Like I said before, keep the resevoir Full. If you want to flush all the fluid out of the slave you will have to compress the slave push rod. Because you are not replacing it you do not have compress every little bit of air out of an empty slave so don t worry so much about compressing it. You can just compress it by hand with the slave installed. Thats how I do it anyways

 

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I just did my R52 for the first time. There is a really good how-to here:
Brake Fluid Flush - Lone Star Mini Club Forums

I used an alternative type of bleeder (purchased at Harbor Freight) that pulls vacuum from the bleed screw using my air compressor. I also decided against making or buying any bracket-tool for compressing the clutch slave cylinder. Instead I used the method similar to the wooden wedge shown here:
R56 brake bleeding - Page 6 - Motoring Alliance :: MINI Cooper Forums

The brakes were easy and I only bled each one once. But the clutch was painful, requiring 5 bleeds. I did everything to get air out of the clutch slave: tap on it, wiggle the brake pedal, jack up the car on the left side. After all that the car was driveable but the clutch pedal had more dead travel at the beginning of the stroke than it did before. I decided to drive it for a couple days to see if it would firm up and it did the next day. I suspect now that the trouble was because I just did not have the clutch slave compressed enough during the first bleed. For later bleeds I incorporated wooden carpentry shims along with the wood block to get the slave cylinder fully compressed.

This time I took the 4 wheels off but next time I may try just driving the front up on ramps (for access to the clutch slave). I also used about 750 mL of the ATE blue fluid and will be rotating it with the amber fluid on subsequent changes. HTH

 

Learned a couple of things reading this thread

Currently trying to finish a pp/c/fw change on my MINI (5 freakin' weeks!) - have it 99-44/100% together, but I, too, cannot get the clutch hydraulics bled . I even resorted to ordering a new master cylinder (already installed the new slave), but Keeler MINI in Latham, NY has decided customer service comes second to everything , so while I await it's arrival on Monday I figured I'd just keep bleeding the pis..., uh, I'll just keep trying.

Almost exactly like smportis's OP - had to

Pressure bleeder. Blocked slave to clutch lever. Had NO (zero/zip/nada) clutch pedal resistance. No fluid outside of master (in dust boot or on floor) - but when I started I could hear it making a squishing sound (thus the order). Read k-huevo's post on Lone Star forums.

The best I've gotten to is a little bit of pressure just above the floor, but will not pump up. although I'm headed out to try leveling the car (get it off the jackstnds) and another litre of DOT4.

 

Biggest lesson learned with new slave valve, you have to COMPLETELY compress the valve to keep air out of it. My slave was fine, I just was not compressing it far enough with my makeshift clamps. Once I had the new one in hand, I could see why it was not bleeding right.

 

So, quoting this again to note - use the *Special Tool*. I didn't and it cost me hours of frustration - but IT CAN BE DONE WITHOUT THE TOOL. You just have to compress the slave valve far enough (which is all the way)! Go by your MINI parts dealer and ask to look at a slave valve to see how far it should compress. Then go back and compress yours that far.

 

Update: finally got it bled and back on the road this past Sunday evening. Wow. I mean, WOW.

Stopped, took a deep breath, and used every "trick" I've read or been told, all at the same time:
Power bleeder
Lots of fluid
Clamped the slave cylinder (fabbed-up my own)
Braced the clutch pedal against the floor (pc. of wood against the seat)
Leveled the car (was on jackstands in the front)
Bleed until 4-5 cycles w/ no air, then walk away from it for a few hours, then bled again (hey, got a few more bubbles), another break, and another bleed (few more!) - and it was pretty good.
Couple of trips around the block to test, wasn't completely satisfied, but was better the next day.

A few little things to tie-up, but I believe the "clutch change from hell" is finally completed (37 days!)

Lesson learned: No shortcuts when bleeding the clutch...

 

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