I run the stock spoolers with Kumho 205/55/15. Its a nice combination. Quickness with serious handling...........

 

Smaller is not necessarily = better.

Depends on how you define "better".

I have run on my 2003 MINI

stock 15x5.5 (clears stock MC and MCS brakes up to about 2005) 12 lbs each
15x6
15x7 Kosei K1-TS 13 lbs each
15x8 et 37 (needs 3mm spacer in rear to clear rear trailing arm)

17x7 stock
17x7 aftermarket et 42 (fits fine) 13.5 lbs each

Each rim will allow different sizes of tires with various sidewalls.

You keep the stock tire diameter of about 24.3" to make odometer and speedometer work best and to keep wheel gap about right, and load rating adequate for street use.

Smaller tire diameter tires can be run but usually result in stiffer sidewalls, lower load rating and drop in ride clearance which improves handling but risks scraping in street use.

The move to larger wheels 18" and larger is largely for looks and is possible due to the demand for lower profile aggressive but costly tires. Ride quality will be reduced and often weight is increased.

For daily use I have stock hollie 15" wheels and All season Bridgestone RE960AS tires in 190/60-15 which work fine. For many years I used the stock Continental 175/65-15 tires which are fine but lack grip.

For performance driving I use 7 or 8" wide wheels and up to 225mm wide soft rubber compound tires. 225/45-15 or 225/50-15 is common.

 

Hi Jim,


You're right, that engine delivered a 73hp which mated to my 13" wheels made for relatively slow acceleration. Even if you smaller wheels weren't ideal for higher speeds or comfort they at least made it move and also gave such a light steering feel that the only thing I can compare it to is bumper car ease of steering.


Thanks also for suggesting those Enkei Racing wheels which are apparently marketed in the USA. Over on this side of the pond it seems I'll be needing to source mine in Germany or Italy unless there are some imports from Asia.


I'll agree that the first priority should be to downsize the weight before reducing the diameter. Secondly a smaller diameter rim will allow for either a cushier ride despite the quicker acceleration and braking when compensating with a taller tire that doesn't change overall diameter and keeps your speedometer and gas mileage identical, or considerably quicker acceleration from smaller wheels with similarly low profile tires.


What either will do to handling and grip is yet to be determined. I expect that there will be a number here who will confirm that handling is better with bigger rims, for any number of reasons, one of which might be the desire to have bigger rims on their car? If road racers go smaller, maybe it isn't so much for extra handling given they are professional drivers, but because what they need most is quick out of the hole giddy-up dealing with the trade-off in cornering with their driving skill?


CB

 

Hi 10Zero,


I'll agree that with your color choice an bit of extra black rubber does bring out the red and makes for a striking car. Congrats!


CB

 

They look nice but in 15" size they weigh 14.5 lbs. Not heavy, but unless you love the looks probably not as light as you can get.


CB

 

I appreciate the suggestions Creeve, The Rays are made in Japan but they don't show the weight for their rims at their website:


Rays Wheels


BBS sounds nice and they could probably ship them from Germany, however their distributors seem to have shunned France so there's no way to see them unless going rim shopping while on vacation...


BBS European Dealer Map


SSR wheels aren't going to be any easier with the closest to my neck of the woods being in the lower Alps north of Milano Italy:


SSR Wheels European Dealers


Nothing quite like the Tire Rack or other warehouse style retailers here with pretty much everything under the sun in stock and a willingness to order whatever they don't usually sell...


CB

 

They all have dealers/distributors in the US

http://www.rays-msc.com/html/rad.html#usa
http://www.ssr-wheels.com/dealerlocator/
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/bbs-wheels.jsp

Are you in another country? France? I don't think you really mentioned.

 

Hi Creeve,


Thanks for the input. However even though I am back and forth between the US and Europe the car is is overseas. Here's a clue, taken a fortnight ago.





It is really a grey city with grey rooftops and grey pavement and cobblestones. Loads of grey cars to boot, making this shade of grey blue both in spec as well as comparatively more colorful in that context than it would be elsewhere.


You will also note the 17 inch rims which aren't the official Camden rims although it is a Camden series car. Apparently they either were out of them or chose to fit the Horizon Blue Camdens with these. I have no idea of what 15 inchers would look good on this car, so I'm mostly looking for something light weight, and then checking as I may to see if they won't be too god-awful ugly before fitting them with winter tires.


CB

 

Hi Mini Coop,


I guess if my Cooper had come with 15 inchers I probably wouldn't be so concerned with their weight, even if it can help handling to reduce it. But since moving down in size will already help, there is a double motivation to get lighter rims.


I take note of your tire choice, and found that they are available in France too. However they are summer tires and I'd be at least first seeking to get winter tires that I would use most of the year, without needing to move back up to the larger rim size?


Tell me if that's wacky, and you think I'd be sacrificing a lot of handling, grip or comfort in using winter tires off season.


Thanks!


CB

 

Hi MiniHune,


That is one sweet ride you've got in your pics, glad to see that helmets get put to good use once in a while. Never worn one of those yet off a motorcycle.


I found the Kosei rims are available here, even if it isn't the same model it does mean that they could probably get ordered even if it means waiting a few weeks.


Am I wrong to consider it best for street use to stay with the original 7 inch rim width even if going down 2 inches in diameter? I note that Mini's stock 15" wheels are 5.5" wide, is this due to rim and tire price rather than because it give better tracking, handling or comfort?



Unlike most folks I seldom use the speedometer and don't mind an offset odometer no matter which way it goes. I guess this could be solved by an aftermarket tuner dialing into the computer the new outer diameter of the tires.


Regarding load ratings, these cars are so much lighter than most cars on the road that it is unlikely that we'd reach the limits which are in any case regulated with considerable safety margins to account for under-inflation and overloaded vehicles.



Lower profile will make for stiffer sidewalls when compared to higher profile tires on smaller rims. But you should be able to keep a similar low profile to what you had on larger rims without increasing stiffness noticeably. Many folks rush off to change springs and sometimes even having to modify their car's geometry in so doing, when all it would take to lower the car would be decreasing rim AND tire diameter. Of course within reason, our Minis aren't close to scraping the ground with stock sizes. If it lowers the center of gravity and reduces unsprung weight to improve handling, it also promises to increase acceleration and facilitate braking. A win/win proposition in my book.



Thanks for confirming what prompted me to post this thread in the first place. Some say that larger rims improve handling, but I think that is because in order to clear the wheel arches they need to run very low profile tires, and it is these high performance tires with stiff sidewalls which help the handling DESPITE the whole shebang being over-sized.



Are those Bridgestone RE960AS tires Asymmetrical? I am a recent adept. And I note that you use the stock narrower rims, are they better for tracking due to their thinner footprint?



So you use wider 15" rims for performance, meaning that you've all but given up on larger wheels?


Thanks for your advice!


CB

 

Thanks for the suggestion. There is an importer who sells them here as "Imported from the USA" which can translate into what you'd expect from a sign: "Imported from Germany" adding the fact that they ask you to contact them to find out about pricing and availability...


I did find the Volk CE28N locally discounted at 500 euros a pop which bring it up near $3k territory without tires.


Gotta move back to the States where you get a Bang for the Buck rather than an Enema for the Euro !


CB

 

Hi Motodad307,


Thanks for the advice, I will look into it. What I have traditionally done, as recommended by long distance haulers, is over-inflate tall sidewall tires considerably, to the max pressure of the tire and not the recommended specs of the vehicle. it reduces flex and heat while preserving gas mileage. Normally this won't hurt unless you have a really finicky computer controlled air or gas suspension system aboard. I'm not sure whether on a light weight and frugal Mini it is going to be much of an issue, but it is good to know that there is a potential additional advantage to reducing total wheel diameter with lower profile tires on smaller rims.


CB

 

These sound like a SHOE-IN for folks following this thread and having access to a cheap source of Konig rims. Especially as you have done all the hard part: the homework and the trial and error tweaks. Thanks!



Now THAT is some GREAT news! I've been thinking about one day getting a set of coilovers, namely the Bilstein PSS9 GM5-A068-H2, so the fact that this works well with your setup is very encouraging.


Also would you recommend beefing up an R56 Cooper with R53 JCW brakes? As these apparently fit using those 15" Candy Konigs? Now THAT would be the Monkey's xxx.



Regarding the offset, doesn't this interfere with the car's straight line tracking making it pull to the side? I know that it is of course better for very hard cornering at the car's dynamic limits. What I wonder is whether it is smarter than zero offset rims if you're seldom pushing the car that hard.


Thanks.


CB

 

Hi Minibeagle,


That's some race you were at with that yellow Mini. A full week, no less!


You know, I was thinking of doing that to my Mustang GT for the same reason, those washboard country roads which rock the heck out of the car need a lot more absorption than 17's with low profile Pirelli Zero Neros. This is what I figured the Porsche Cayenne tires might bring, because they have tall but stiff sidewalls and an incredibly high speed rating for such a profile.


For our Minis this is an area where its going to take some fine tuning to figure out the right setup, between rim size and sidewall height, depending on where you're driving. Back in the States with oodles of dirt roads throughout the countryside plus tons of pot holes, I'd go higher profile. Over here in Europe the roads are better paved and smoother in general, plus rural areas left intact are few and far between, meaning less need for high sidewalls.


CB

 

Thanks! Kuhmo ASX 215/50-16s on 16x7 Konigs


Stiff because of the rubber cone suspension, there were no springs. A bit rough (acceptable) with the standard 10" wheels, and a real buckboard with the 12" wheels like on a 1275GT or Cooper S. A Hydrolastic suspension, if you could find em', gave a better ride but at the expense of a high rate of failure (they always seemed to leak).

 

CB,

The stock 15" rim is made 5.5" for lower weight, lower cost and so that it can fit the stock 175/65 tire. They could have made it 15x7 and run a 195/60 tire but that would increase weight and cost and make the 16" optional wheel less of a difference/less of an upgrade. The stock wheel and tire are minimal for the MINI but functional. And being narrow they work in light snow OK albeit the tires could be better.

For street use you can use any 15, 16 or 17" wheel with the right tire. They each have some advantages but consider-

Using 15" rims you can choose many sidewall sizes to fit the MINI.
175/65
185/65
195/60
205/55
205/60

Using 16" rims fewer sidewall choices
205/50
205/55
225/50

Using 17"
205/45
215/40
215/45

Notice a pattern? As you increase wheel diameter you need to reduce sidewall. As a result in 18" wheels you are using 35 series sidewalls and that is what often can improve handling since a stiffer sidewall can feel more crisp on turnin and more responsive but you compromise comfort with a very stiff ride what is jarring and risky for wheel or tire damage when you hit a pothole.

I run tires of all sizes with the MINI and just make a mental adjustment for speedometer error. Doesn't bother me. No real need to make speedo exactly correct due to a wheel change- unless that is your only wheel. I change out wheels often so not worth it for me.

Load ratings are important to consider since you want to safely carry your passengers and all gear. It will seem like there is enough tire to meet your needs but you want some excess in capacity as the tire heats up under hard use and is stressed.

Decreasing rim and tire diameter is of limited value using stock suspension since a small tire diameter would increase wheel gap and lower ride clearance to the ground. You should think of the big plan and whole picture which includes all parts of the MINI.

First examine what you want to do- what are you using the MINI for? Car show and only for looks? Driving event or driving school? Dedicated Track or autocross car? Or daily driver with comfort in mind but slightly better performance.

Depending on your priorities you then choose the right mix or blend of upgrades to suit your needs within your budget.

Suspension
Wheels
Tires
Brakes
Alignment

If you use stock suspension then you should choose a stock sized tire and similar wheel although some increased width is possible.

Larger wheels with lower (not higher) sidewalls are needed to fit the relatively small stock tire diameter or it will risk rubbing especially if suspension is lowered.

Further sidewall stiffness is complicated by many variables besides just how low profile it is. Materials and design of the sidewall as well as XL load rating are some of the ways manufactorers can produce very different results in performance and handling as well as comfort in a given tire size. Lower profile tires do not have to ride harshly if you choose a tire that affords relatively more comfort. Naturally if you improve comfort you might trade off some handling or if the tire does both well you might have to pay more for it. See Michelin Pilot Sport PS2.


Bridgestone RE960AS is directional but not asymmetrical.
It works well with stock rims but will fit 15x5.5 to 7" wide easily.
Since I have the stock rims handy no real need to put on wider rims which I have as well.

15" performance wheels cost less and weigh less and still fit with good selection of tires for my uses. Since I have stock brake calipers I can use them without hassle. If I committed to a big brake kit I would have to limit wheel sizes to larger options. For street tires this is OK but for competition the MINI doesn't have good choices in 17" or larger. Typically you want a competition tire to have a slightly smaller tire diameter so you get lowered gearing for the MINI. This helps with low speed acceleration but takes away from top end speed. On a short track or at autocross the small tire is good.
15" tires offer sizes that are quite small in tire diameter vs larger tires 17 or larger. 15" tires and cheaper and lighter. I have not given up, I have competition 17" wheels and tires but not larger.

 

What a nice read. I agree with every darned thing the OP said. Here's my car on Kosei 15x7 +38, with 205/50-15 Dunlop Z1. The non competition wheels are the stock 16x6.5 (Winter cometh!).

Cheers,

Charlie

 

Hi Charlie, and thanks! I noticed that you have close to the same profile as on the larger stock 205/45-17 rims. But I have to ask: didn't you lower your car also? I was hoping for 15's to lower mine but yours looks set up for the track - right?


Do you like your Dunlop Z1's? They must be soft rubber. My fetish Bridgestone asymmetricals don't exist in size 15... And is there a reason other than convenience that makes you use 15's in the winter?


CB

 

Hi 10Zero,

I've heard from another member that they tried 215 width and found that it messed up tracking although it did improve cornering grip. What's your take on that?



I never had a chance to drive one with the Hydrolastic suspension, but even with a lot of failures it would have been worth it. I can still remember the back ache from a very long drive back in the days.


CB

 

1. yep, H&R coil overs, and a few other bits - setup and corner weighting from Turner Motorsports
2. I like the Z1s a lot, I returned to them for the 2010 competition year having tried the 225/45-15 Hankook RS3 in 2008, and the 225/45-15 Toyo R1R in 2009. The Toyo would be my choice, but I'd need 15x7.5 at least to keep them happy, preferably 15x8
3. yes, it isn't convenience - I'm just too poor to set up some Blizzaks on the stock rims this year

Merry Christmas!

Charlie

 

Do you know a tuner who can do this?

 

Hi Ran o Matic,

Most custom tuners with dyno benches and who are used to tweaking a car's computer should be able to dial this into the engine management software. However, it is going to have to be a place used to working on Minis since each brand has its own workarounds. Unfortunately, this isn't something cheap to do, costing hundreds, so it is usually done to take into account other mods at the same time to make it cost effective.

Reprogramming my pursuit vehicle I'm doing a whole lot to make the $550 including 2 dyno bench runs worthwhile: engine swap, headers, full cat backs, MAF, intake spacer, cold air intake, pulleys, new wheel diameter. Others will swap their axle ratios (on rear drive cars) or transmission gearing, automatic shift revs, to make sure that it all gets taken car of at the same time and... for the same price.

CB

 

Hi Charlie, and Happy New Year !

I'm glad to learn you went H&R coil overs, heard that's the way to go even though my ride doesn't have a blower. Did moving to coil overs change your preferred wheel/tire characteristics?

Also, I realize you race, but for country road racing (soft core rally driving) would you recommend those Toyos? They sure seem awfully wide, maybe without a Turbo you wouldn't need as much rubber on the road?

Cheers,

CB

 

You may have already found this but there are a couple one that I have found useful

http://www.wheelweights.net/

and

http://www.miata.net/faq/wheel_weights.html

Hope this helps

KT

 

Interesting thread...when I picked up my justa Clubman, several people commented on how "tiny" the 15 inch wheels looked. I remember my 1991 Prelude had 14" wheels, and Im almost positive they were an upgrade over the 13s that the base model came with.