I know they are not a racing pad but that's not what I am doing. I have these pads on my MCS for daily driving and was wondering if they would suffice for a Drivers Education event.

With limited funds and so many potential goodies to buy I was hoping that I didn't "have" to buy new pads for a weekend DE.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

I think EBC green pads would be fine for your DE event. For long track use with higher temps the EBC greens are not very good but for short track work or autocross you will be fine. Plus on the street they are OK and make less brake dust than stock pads do.

 

>>I think EBC green pads would be fine for your DE event. For long track use with higher temps the EBC greens are not very good but for short track work or autocross you will be fine. Plus on the street they are OK and make less brake dust than stock pads do.


Thanks! :smile:

 

I keep hearing that the EBC Greens are not meant to handle road course racing and such. Are the stock brake pads better on road course race days than the EBC Green Pads then??

 

Hey dominicminicoopers,

I'll try to help on this. From what I have read in the EBC Greens ads, they are supposed to be a little better gripping than stock pads and can take some light (occassional) racing use. Plus, people on this site have used them and said they are better gripping. For track use, you need a pad that can take more heat than stock pads because they get used a lot. But due to limitations in the materials available for pads, they generally need to be warmed up first before they reach their optimum braking capability. So, they will not work as well as the stock pads for the first few times you use the brakes. After they warm up, they will work better than stock pads. So, it is all a compromise in pad materials. I am talking theoretical here. I have no knowledge of any specific pads, as I still have stock pads, which work very well for street use, they just generate some brake dust. The more high performance the pads, then the worse they are until they get warmed up. So, the stock pads will outperform the high performance pads for a short time. How long that is I don't know. Again, this is all general info about brakes.

I think people have just been cautious to recommend the EBC Greens for people in case they will be doing more than just a little racing.

 

If you have Greens on your car already, you'll be fine. You can use any pad for any HPDE you wish, you just have to understand what can happen and be able to recognize it.

The first thing that happens is that you'll experience brake fade. Brakes are designed to change kenetic energy into heat (rotating motion slowed by friction). Fade occurs when more heat is generated than can be dissipated. The temperature reaches a max (max temp is function of materials used, type and mass) and the brakes become less effective. This is characterized by the car beginning to slow and then not really. This is where knowing the track is helpful. You should be aware of where it's safe to go off and where not to. The nice thing is that it's not a permanent condition. You can take it easy for a lap and the brakes will cool enough to function again. Don't stop and don't apply the emergency brake. This will cook the pads. Driving keeps the air flowing.

The second thing is boiling the fluid. I had this problem when my 95 Golf broke it's exhaust. It sound cool, had loads more power, but was dumping the hot gases onto the rear brake line. The pedal goes down to the floor. You pump and sometimes the pressure comes up enough to slow the car. When the fluid boils in the caliper, it could cause the brake to apply. If you're finding that the car isn't accelerating as hard but the engine sounds fine, limp back to the pits. This is not something that will fix itself. If there was water in the fluid, it could have vaporized and recondensed causing several problems. The Golf was fine except for the massive amount of thick fluid they removed. Try not to let this happen.

Lastly, you can melt the pads. I've talked with a few guys who used Greens at Blackhawk and they change composition. The pads were impossible to use and made travelling home very dangerous for them. Stock pads are actually more resistant to heat than the EBCs.

And don't forget warped rotors. Almost guarranteed for any of the above situations. Although, this more of an annoyance than a danger.

Have fun.

 

>>I keep hearing that the EBC Greens are not meant to handle road course racing and such. Are the stock brake pads better on road course race days than the EBC Green Pads then??

I appreciate all of the general info.

So here's the hypothetical question. Say, I have a choice between only 2 types of pads: MINI stock and EBC green. Both are new and still in the box sitting on my workbench waiting to get installed onto my car. I want to race my car on the track and I have a few days prior to going so breakin shouldn't be a concern. Which set should I have on the car to better handle the abuse of running a road course race track? MINI Stock or EBC Green?

 

I run EBC green with slotted rotors in front and slotted and drilled in rear and they are working ok for both street and track. They are a compromise however as I agree with the above posts about the heat issue. One thing to remember no matter what pad you use is that upon returning to the pits DO NOT SET YOUR HANDBRAKE ! Leave the car in gear as it colls down or you run the risk of warping your rotors or as some have claimed " welding " your pads to the rotors . While your at it it doesn't hurt to push your car forward or backward a few feetever so often to keep from flat spotting your tires during the cool down process as well.Have fun Mini loves the track !

Randy
Team M7

 

>>So here's the hypothetical question. Say, I have a choice between only 2 types of pads: MINI stock and EBC green. Both are new and still in the box sitting on my workbench waiting to get installed onto my car. I want to race my car on the track and I have a few days prior to going so breakin shouldn't be a concern. Which set should I have on the car to better handle the abuse of running a road course race track? MINI Stock or EBC Green?

OK, you have two new sets of pads.

Use the stock MINI pads when-
You are doing only street driving and you don't mind lots of brake dust on your rims everyday.
You are doing autocross and you don't mind lots of brake dust.(the runs are very short, heat not much of a factor)
You are doing a long course track event with lots of turns which will generate more heat.
You suspect your rotors are warped and you want the dealer to look at them for replacement under warranty.

Use the EBC green pads when-
You are doing only street driving and you don't want much brake dust on your rims (esp white rims).
You are doing autocross and want a little better stopping with much less brake dust.
You are doing driving ed events or performance driving school with limited track time. Do the cool down lap easy.
You are doing a short course track or track and tune event with limited time on the track. 2 sessions x 15 minutes.
You like the bright green color to match your BRG MINI with yellow painted calipers.

 

Thanks randy, I too have heard of the handbrake thing.

Thanks minihune. If I understand correctly the stock pads are better of the two for road course racing abuse.

 

>>If I understand correctly the stock pads are better of the two for road course racing abuse.

I have heard similar things, too. I just don't recall where. The stock pads aren't awful at the track, but they will start to fade if you're taking late braking points and/or your runs go much more than 15 minutes. I've used stock pads and Ferrodo DS2500 at the track, pushing the car in similar ways. The Ferodos tend to work significantly better once warmed up and over longer periods of time.

Frankly, if you're running stocks or greens on road courses, I would HIGHLY recommend changing the brake fluid from stock to either of the Ate fluids (blue or amber). I've seen them available from $10-$15, and it'll only take two cans to do a full bleed (actually, it only takes a bit over one can, but to be really thorough and also to bleed the clutch, you will need that second can). For $30 or less, you will significantly reduce your chances of boiling your fluid, which I can almost guarantee happening at a track event with stock/Greenstuff pads and stock fluid.

Hope that helps!

 

>>Hope that helps!

Yep, sure does! Thanks. :smile:

 

I just finished an HPDE yesterday. Fairly tight course, 3 miles 15 turns, outside temps in the low 80's in the afternoon. I have stock brake pads and ATE fluid. Worked well. I ran 5 25 minute groups, and 80 miles of twisties on the way home. I think I will go with Ferodos on my next track day. I never experienced much fade, but I was beginning to feel less confident about my brakes toward the end of a few runs.

Andy

 

Putting Ferrodo 2500s in front and replacing brake fluid, I use Motul RBF 600, makes a significant difference on track days. Much more confidence in braking and virtually eliminates brake fade.