Yep. The others are flare fit right? I just wanted to get every ink to the point where I can bolt it up and get the bleed process going.

So an open end wrench won't be an issue on the hard line fitting? Or do I need to make some more stops to try to find an 11mm?

--Matt

 

Correct on the fittings. Good luck on the open end wrench...keep shopping. Flag down a Snap-On truck.

 

I was able to track down a set at sears that includes even and odd sizes. I now have two of the even sizes, but at least I have the right one now. It blows my mind that the can sell a set of 5 for $40 yet charge $16 apiece for them, but I'm not one to pass up a sale...especially on tools

--Matt

 

Whelp, the car is off the ground (all 4 wheels so I can do a full bleed without hassle). Pulled off the calipers and rotors and cleaned the hubs up real nice so I can get a fresh start in the morning. I just noticed the friggin motive bleeder came with an 8" piece of tube for bleeding, so it looks like I'll have to have the wife take me to the store to get some more 1/4" hose before I can get started.

From the look of it, it seems as though I just need to loosen the flare nut on the brake line since it seems to be held in place on the other side by the bracket. Getting excited, let's hope it goes well

--Matt

 

Yupper...no messing around with clips and filing out the body bracket to fit some adapter or odd size hose end. You get my hoses: they're a drop in fit identical to the oe end for fit. And have the rubber supports as you know. *if you missed it- warm them if you need to slide them a bit, some silicone spray helps too. I usually just put them outside of the shop for 30min. But then this is AZ...

 

Sweetness! It'll be a balmy 50 tomorrow, so I guess I'll have to heat em up with something to slide them. They both look too close to the elbow to fit as they arrived, but I'm not too worried about moving it. I'll stick em in front of the heater in the garage for a bit beforehand. It has a 120 degree output temp, so it should work OK.

The shims they sent with the mounts (.016") don't seem thick enough to make much, if any, visible difference in placement. Am I really going to need to spy that small of a gap by eye to line up the caliper bolts? The instructions also mention removing and not replacing the dust plates. Isn't this detrimental in crummy weather? Or not a big deal?

--Matt

 

Got the calipers/rotors/pads on s far. The shims were more obvious than I thought they would be. I ended up needing 3 on the joint to the spindle and none on the joint to the carrier. The stupid 12 point nut was a bit of a surprise, and required a trip to the store. One was crushed too, but I was able to vice it true. Hopefully the plumbing and bleeding will go well. I have a big roll of 1/4 ID tube now, so I should be good to go.

--Matt

 

Most big brake kits remove the dust plates for improved air flow and or fit reasons. Leaving them on is fine so long as they don't interfere with the rotor when done or the centering. If the plate is fit between the bracket and spindle for example that can shift the intended mounting of the bracket and is subsequent centering. Personally I'd pull them off on nearly every build.

Shimming to the bracket to the iron knuckle is required to center the caliper to the rotor. The shims fit to the top and bottom bolt should be equal thus ensuring the parts are not misaligned or bent.

The shims on the stud used to support the caliper will also be the same top and bottom: 2 thick each for example. The barrel spacer is also necessary on the 12.2 kit and deleted on the 11.75 kit as the parts all share the same basic fit. One simply a larger mount radius.

The nuts are 12pt all metal locking nuts like this:

Produced with a crimp to the thread for the locking feature of it.

 

Well, I've got it all together and it's driveable, but there are two problems. I probably won't drive it again until it's corrected.

1: The nut that I squished back together (it was super squished, like couldn't even get a tool on it) ruined the stud on the mount. It'll hold 30 lb/ft but the top few threads are completely flat. It didn't feel right going in, but I figured it was soft enough to get back into shape, but it ended up just ripping the threads off of the top and staying out of round internally. My fault completely, but I didn't have any ability to get to a store to get a non-screwed-up fastener.
2: One of the two rotors has a small manufacturing defect. It's slightly off balance and drags on the pad slightly when a specific spot on the radius of the rotor passes under the pad. I can actually see with my eyes a thickness variation in the spot where I can hear it drag against the pad along the outside edge on the inboard side. It happens with the same rotor on either side of the car, and the outside radius has a tiny amount more runout right in that spot. Its perfectly centered on the hub and the amount of play when bolting the rotor to the hub was so small that it doesn't be related. The hubs are both also perfectly clean shiny metal I cleaned them several times with a wire brush.

Mr Todd, I think I'll be getting a hold of you monday to get some parts to replace what I broke. Can I purchase a new Wilwood caliper mount and new nuts from you? Also, is the manufacturing variation that I mentioned in #2 something that I need to worry about? I can't hear it while driving or anything, but I can hear it if I spin the wheel by hand.

If the rotor issue should be addressed, which I kinda think it should, can I just buy a set of your nice ones and have them fit right in? Can they even be pre-assembled? I need to get my car back in roadworthy condition as soon as possible.

And, after all that, the bleeding process went beautifully. No problems at all. I just did a gravity bleed like you suggested. Once it was done, i kept pumping the pedal and cracking the bleeders until no bubbles came with the fluid when I cracked them. I repeated the procedure 6 or 8 times in total until it was bubble free,and the pedal feels great! Better than new actually.

I needed 3 shims at the spindle on one side and 2 on the other, but I see on the TCE site that this isn't unexpected.

All that said, I'm sure going to love how easy this stuff is to service. Pad changes take 5 min a side including wheel removal and the calipers come off in just a couple minutes more!

--Matt

Edit: I've since disassembled the problematic rotor, cleaned it thoroughly on all the mating surfaces on both parts, and reassembled it to make absolutely sure its the disc. It's still exactly as it was, off in that one spot. It's just in a slightly different place because I didn't bolt back to the same holes (which also confirms that it isn't the spindle or something in there).

 

Just wanted to follow up on this. I was able to get a new stud, new rotor, and new fasteners from Summit. Hopefully it'll all go together on Tuesday when I have a chance to work on it again.

To any shadetree mechanics that are looking to install this kit, or one like it, I have some words of advice.

1) Todd at TCE is your man. Get your kit from him. Don't be tempted by ebay deals. If you read this after getting a kit somewhere else, get your lines from him and send back or return the Wilwood lines.
2) Check all of the parts ahead of time. In my case, I had one nut that was squished beyond usability (very visibly so) and one rotor that was off balance. The rotor wouldn't be so easy to spot, but placed on top of the good one, I can clearly see that it is out-of-round.
3) Make sure you have an appropriate 12 point 11mm socket for the caliper nuts. I've never bought anything but 6 points over the years, but you absolutely need one here.
4) For the bleed, go with a gravity bleed at least initially. You will need a 1/4" wrench for this. I used a pepsi bottle and some 1/4" tubing that I picked up from home depot, one set on each side so I didn't have to worry about disconnecting and reconnecting stuff. Take your time and be patient. Keep the tubing above the level of the bleed nipple. Wear rubber gloves. My bleed rig looked like this (click for bigger pic):

5) When working on the plumbing, push the brake pedal down about 2 inches with a brick or something and cap the brake fluid reservoir. I did this and lost only a drop or two of fluid during the process.
6) Make sure you've got the appropriate torx bit and loctite ahead of time. I couldn't find Loctite 271 locally anywhere, but Permatex 27100 is an appropriate equivalent.
7) Be patient and careful during the shimming process. You may not, or probably won't, necessarily need the same number on both sides. That process is where you'll get oh-so-comfortable with and thankful for the ease of service that this Wilwood kit provides.
8) I needed less than a 12oz bottle of brake fluid to get a clean bleed, but have plenty more on hand just in case something goes amiss. My res never ran down past half full, but I have never had over buying silly cheap things like that ahead of time not pay off. A 32oz bottle of Valvoline Synthetic DOT3/DOT4 is less than $6 at your local auto parts store and can possibly save your hide, grab one. It has better boling points than the stock fluid and is dirt cheap for an initial fill and bleed. Once you get all the air out you can always easily change it to something better in not a long time with a power bleeder. It just seems like the general consensus is that it's harder to get out all of the air bubbles than a gravity bleed. I'll probably replace my current fluid with RBF600 in the summer, but the car has only 5k miles so the stock fluid is still just fine. It came out of the lines looking as clean as the stuff that I poured in.
9) With the rubber donut mounts on the hose, warm it up in front of a heater or with a blow dryer, then pinch it lightly to expose gaps between the rubber and the hose where you can spray silicone lubricant. Do this from 2 points, 90 degrees apart from each other on each side, and they should budge pretty easily with a slight twist and be moveable.

Aside from that, the install went beautifully. The serviceability of this kit is amazing. You can truly take the whole thing apart in ~5 minutes. Pad changes require no tools at all, just your hands.

Also, just in case you missed point 1, Todd at TCE is the man. Read carefully all of his advice above.

--Matt

 

The replacement stud looked like something I didn't want to install myself, so I got a new mount next day shipped from Wilwood.

The new hat/rotor that I installed on the side that was wonky fixed the issue. It makes the same sound all the way around now as the pad touches the surface of the rotor. On the other side, the mount went in without any fuss.

After going for a good 20 mile break in drive, I pulled the wheels off again to inspect. I found a slight amount of weeping on both sides at the joint between the flare adapter and the elbow on the line. On the passenger side, it had wept enough that there were two visible drips inside the wheel. I snugged it down with three fingers holding the middle of the wrench, and it budged twice for maybe 1/32nd of a turn each (if that). The other side didn't weep enough to drip anywhere, but a drag of a dry finger on the bottom returned a bit of fluid. That side snugged down roughly half as much as the other side. In both cases the weeping was on the backside of the nut where the hard line comes out of the fitting. One bleeder was a touch moist as well, so I snugged it down too. Pumping the brakes afterwards seems to have produced nothing at any of the points.

The bed in drive went well. I noticed at first that there was a slight groaning sound around 15-20mph while I was slowing down. It seems to have gone away entirely after the bed in drive. My limitation in stopping power was definitely my Blizzaks. I was expecting to smell an abundance of brake pad smell, but it was all burning tire during the hard stops. The last 8 miles or so were used for cool down and only had a few gradual stops. It sure is nice to have pads that are easy to modulate. Those yellows were pretty on/off.

I hear a slight squeak every so often just as I come to a stop, but I'm assuming it'll probably go away. It's nothing like the EBC Yellows. Not sure why they were so bad on this car, since they were perfectly plesant on my other car.

Aside from that, only glowing reviews to report! Stopping power is great, yet they're easy to modulate. I'd say just as streetable as the stockers actually, quite a treat! The Bridgespokes fit right on with plenty of room to spare. Not enough room to get a finger between the caliper and wheel, but plenty of clearance all around it.

Thanks again to Todd at TCE. I couldn't have worked up the nerve to do it or gotten through it as easily without him and his support/wisdom.

--Matt

 

Glad things worked on for you Matt. Sorry to see you go direct to Wilwood for the bracket but I seldom stock parts quite that deep, rotors, pads, hoses, caliper items, maybe a caliper...but seldom a mounting bracket. The entire catalog from them is simply way too large to stock.

The BP10s will treat you right so long as you don't look for them to be open track day use pads. When you go that route let's talk about Poly B pads if you run some good rubber.

Until then: Happy Motoring!

 

Thanks again Todd!

I think I still see some weeping on the bleed nipples, but it may just be residual that I didn't suck up with the towel. I see some folks indicating that this is normal, and is just caused by fluid sitting in the nipple from the initial bleed. Does that jive with your experience with these dynalite calipers? It isn't enough to make it to the flat surface on the brass piece, just around the threads. The fluid that was sitting in the nipples does seem to have dropped in level, so it seems reasonable. Also, any need to get caps for those nipples to keep them clean? This car is my DD.

--Matt

 

Rinse off everything with water, not brake cleaner etc. Water. Then blow dry.

 

K, I did that and it looks better. I still see some sheen on the threads in the crevice around the threads, but its definitely not a bead of liquid all the way around like it was. It's distinctly possible that I didn't rinse it enough. I'll keep an eye on them. The place on the joint at the caliper fitting adapter that was wet yesterday is still dry as a bone today.

Boy oh boy do I like these brakes. The pedal feels awesome and they're awesome around town and on the highway alike! I was so used to never coming to a complete stop with those yellows because of the awful deposit problem, and its awfully nice to be able to drive like a normal person now. :-) I get noticeable dive under braking now, so I see bigger rear rotors in my future.

--Matt

 

You know...had a customer tell me years ago:

"Wish I'd known years ago what I know now. I'd have bought the brakes first. Every time I step on the brake pedal I know right where my money went. I wish I could say that for all the other horse power parts I've purchased over the years...."

 

Glad I did the brakes first. This is actually my second brake job. Might be the only mini with 2 brake jobs before the 4k mile mark. I did pads/rotors at 900, and now these :-)

Well, first unless I don't count the JCW kit the dealer installed before I picked it up. I love this car, and they just made it that much more exciting and enjoyable!

My only real complaint, if you can even call it that, is that it doesn't seem to be possible to get the pads down low enough that the wear surface won't be getting contact with the edge of the rotor until the bevel on the end is worn off. If I move them down even one shim they contact the rotor. Where they are now, I can see the the pad hanging off the edge of the surface. There doesn't seem to be any possible adjustment for the height of the pad inside the caliper. If I push them down all the way against the metal clip they look like they'll line up perfectly, but they find their way back out against it in in the other direction during use. Looking at the install videos for the dynalites on other cars shows the same. Normal? (example: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3xel_vQ046...0/P1012004.jpg)

--Matt

 

Whelp, I noticed that there was slight pull toward the driver's side under heavy braking at high speeds. It didn't seem to go away as mileage increased, so I decided to give another gravity bleed a try. I pulled through another pint of fluid. At first there were a couple of reasonably noticeable bubbles (maybe .75cm long in the 1/4" tubing) on the passenger side. After that point, I could see teeny tiny bubbles and what appeared to be little specs of something in the fluid that followed. I just kept dumping fluid in and letting it bleed out until it came out looking new. Another drive revealed that it now stops straight and true!

The "moaning" noise I hear at around 16-18mph didn't actually go away like I thought it did, it seems it just only happens under moderate and higher braking. I've noticed some folks complaining about this on the web, so it seems to be a common trait to the street pads I have.

Aside from that, nothing but brilliance to report. Stopping power is incredible for street pads, and the pedal and driving feel are fantastic! It's so nice not to have to worry about never coming to a complete stop with hot pads like I did with the EBC Yellows. These BP-10 pads can be driven just like the stockers, oh so easily.

The weeping out of the bleeders that I thought I was seeing wasn't really an issue. After rinsing/blowing dry twice they remained dry. I saw some reports that fluid sitting inside the barbs on the bleeders causes that appearance of weeping as it finds its way out, and that seems consistent with my experience.

--Matt