I ordered a Wilwood brake kit for my R55 this evening, and am considering doing the install myself. I've done loads (probably 30 or more) brake pad/rotor jobs, but never swapped a caliper or hose or bled lines before. Are there any good DIY articles out there for this car? I found one on this forum, but it was pics only and all of the pics were dead links. When considering doing similar work on previous cars, I've seen many recommendations for the motive bleeder tool. Would that be a good piece to use here? I've also seen tips on this forum to put a bit of pressure on the brake pedal prior to cracking the lines open to keep the reservoir full. Good advice?

--Matt

 

Any advantage/disadvantage to using a bleeder tool like this:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2009-C...ols/ES1895871/

vs an extractor tool like this:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Mini-2009-C.../Tools/ES4371/

I've got 2pt of unopened bottles of Motul DOT5.1 sitting in the garage from my last car. As far as I can tell it's fine for use with this one as well? Since this is my first foray into something like this, I'm thinking I'll probably order twice as much fluid as I need (reportedly 2pt for the job) to make sure it's done right.

Is there a specific order in which each corner needs to be bled? Also, I see that there are special sealants for brake line connections. Are these needed/good to use?

--Matt

 

For bleeding brakes I've had good success with a hand operated vacuum pump. It's one of the best ways to flush old fluid and purge the air. The only thing that really leaves zero air I've found is to have a buddy push hard on the brake pedal to pressurize the lines and then let the air out. Whatever methods are used keeping the reservoir full and preventing air being sucked back in are essential. I usually go around the car two or three times starting with the furthest wheel, repeating the process of opening bleed screws.

I would typically go through a full quart of fluid for a front and rear purge and refill so you probably have enough. I just use the cheapest fluid that gets the job done with a decent BP. Lately Iv'e been using Valvoline synthetic DOT 3&4 readily available at Autozone etc.

Not familiar with using brake line sealants, most lines seal with a flare, pipe thread, or copper washer- all quite effective at holding pressure. The biggest mistake you can make is to actually overtighten the rather small fittings a strip them. When I installed new hoses with the pipe thread into the Wilwood calipers I debating using teflon tape then just installed them bare, haven't had any leaks.

The manual recommends a push stick to maintain pedal pressure when opening lines to keep fluid from flowing. I find it still leaks out only slower, so it just drips longer. With a full purge planned I see no advantage.

Mityvac is the standard pump I use:

 

Interesting, Mityvac. I had one of those years ago for priming the fuel pump on my TDI. Shame I don't have it anymore. I'm actually most afraid of stripping things. I'm assuming the lines do not need to be installed gorilla tight? Perhaps I should get a set of stubby wrenches to keep the max tq down. I wish Wilwood provided a bit more detailed instructions for installation with tq specs and whatnot.

Now, when you say "bleed screw", this is the nut with the nipple on it correct? As far as I've seen/heard/been told over the years, I attach a hose to the nipple and crack that nut slightly to let fluid flow through...correct?

--Matt

 

Yes, bleed screws are essentially plugs located at the high point of the fluid cavities, or all four corners for the Wilwood calipers (you only use the two top end in that case). For the flare ends of lines and small diameter bleeders I just use tiny wrenches or don't apply force beyond 4 inches and you won't have enough leverage to overtighten. There is little chance of a problem with undertightening as the structural loads are nill, only seal tight and your good. For the hose ends with large pipe thread or flat copper washers a little more torque may be needed but these fittings take more abuse.

You may prefer one of those other bleeder tools, I just don't like the idea of trying to pressurize the Master Cylinder as I hate to have brake fluid sprayed all over.

 

The wilwood kits have full installation instructions with them listing all the required torque specs and suggested use of Loctite etc.

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/DataSheets/ds492.pdf

 

So they do. I quickly glanced at it initially, saw no step-by-step instructions with accompanying pictures, and moved on assuming they were like so many of the other enthusiast products with little to no instructions that I have installed over the years.

Any personal preference on bleeding tools? Max has a point on brake fluid spraying around, given its caustic nature, but I've not heard of issues with it. I have owned cars with fluid reservoirs that don't seal properly over the years though, presumably caused by over pressurizing them.

Is there a tq spec for the bleed screws, or do they just need to be snuggled? I haven't had my smaller tq wrench calibrated in the last two years. Is that 30-35lb/ft number specific enough that I'll be taking a big risk installing without having it re-calibrated? I suspect that it's reading a little lower than actual tq.

--Matt

 

Me, I just do the gravity thing for the most part then if I have some help do a light pressure bleed with a foot on the pedal. (pushing with all your effort has no bearing, you just need to displace it not pressurize it to the moon!)

I'm not keen on the vacuum and pressure tools that much for fear of aeration issues but if you do the pressure deal it's very low psi. In any case don't let the reservoir run dry.

 

Thanks guys, I think you've given me the confidence to dig into this.

Gravity thing? Will the fluid eventually reach the bleed valves unprovoked? Is sealant or teflon tape a good idea where the L fitting threads into the caliper? I'm assuming I snug that guy down then tighten it until its pointing the right way?

Is there concern about air infiltration in the ABS system? Any good way to avoid it.

--Matt

 

Teflon tape or some sort of sealant should be used on the pipe thread only. Not non the swivel ends or the hardline fitting.

Gravity; open the bleed on top (outer then inner) and let it fill up and burp itself. So long as the fluid is flowing out no air goes back in. You don't need any pressure to get it to flow. Take off the hose now and see what happens...

 

Max, which line kit did you use when you installed yours? I see a pic in another post with lines like this:


Yet the kit that I ordered looks like this:


--Matt

 

I'll wager that the upper kit came from me. TCE does not use the 90 degree pipe thread fittings that are supplied by other Wilwood dealers nor the hose lock clip. All TCE hoses come with 90 degree swivel hose ends for easy fit/indexing without potential damage to the caliper body caused by rotating the fitting.

We also do not use the clips or require the body mounts to be filed or enlarged as the hose ends used are specific to the fit/need of the MINI and are a direct copy of the BMW style end.

Lastly the TCE hoses all use the BMW spec rubber center support, not some flimsy o-ring or nothing at all. It takes a bit more time to fit but it's a direct fit item for the bracket.

Sometimes the Wilwood stuff just doesn't quite cut it....I step up and make it right.

 

Heck yeah! I just ordered me a set of those! Screw these ones. I'll take them back to Summit.

--Matt

 

I think there may be some confusion here Matt....

The lines shown above are not for the stock MINI caliper- they are specific to the big brake kit. The hoses I referenced from me above are also specific to the big brake kit.

You have requested hoses for the stock brakes on all four corners. I have all of these but need to know what you're using them on here??

 

Definitely needed the Wilwood hoses. Thanks for straightening the order out!

 

Gottcha covered here bud, no problem. I think you'll find them a nice fit for the need.

 

I have been quite satisfied with the TCE hose kits for the front Wilwoods and Rear JCW calipers. The fittings installed very well, and for me the center support fit may be the most important feature. With my 16in wheels I discovered at the very last that the hose for the front could rub against the inside of the rim. That sort of interference could quickly result in a cut hose, and was avoided by shortening length on the caliper end of the line. The center support not only keeps the hose away from pinch points, it also allows length adjustment to be made and then held in place. I highly recommend checking the clearance against suspension travel and with the wheels on to cover all the variables.

 

Todd,
Thanks again!

Max,
Thanks for the tip. I've got 16" Bridgespokes with winter tires on now. As far as I've read, they're going to fit under them. Still waiting for confirmation in another thread that they won't need spacers.

--Matt

 

Well, the Wilwood kit arrived on Friday. Hopefully the TCE lines will come by next weekend. I don't trust my smaller tq wrench, so I picked up a nice needle-style 0-75lb/ft wrench today for the job. I've always preferred them to the snap head ones i had anyways. I'm going to try a gravity bleed initially, but I'll have a motive bleeder on hand as well if I need some pressure.

The mini brake fluid is dirt cheap (only $3 a bottle), so I'm just going to use it initially since I don't want to waste expensive stuff learning. I picked up 4 12oz bottles of it, so I should have more than enough. It's winter, and I have winter tires on currently, so I'm sure it'll be more than fine for the time being.

Is there any reason I can't assemble the rotors ahead of time? It's like step 3 of the process, but I'd certainly prefer to knock it out in my leisure in the house where it's warm ahead of time.

--Matt

 

You can do a bunch of per assembly: hats and rotors, load the pads, fit the caliper inlet fittings...I wouldn't sweat the torque wrench much, hand tools and common sense would do as well. Nice for the hats tho. BTW, they are torx now...some Bonehead's idea I guess.

 

Good good, I'll probably throw them together during the week while I have time then. With the pads being so easy to install, I'll probably just do them the day of, but I will probably attach the lines to the calipers though. I'm sure I'll lose less fluid during the job with just one line to attach.

Yeah, a new tq wrench is probably overkill. I generally only use them for structural bolts and anything that attaches to the drivetrain components. I've gorrilla snapped enough bolts over the years that I just feel a little safer having it for my new $1k brake part install.

--Matt

 

Got the lines today. They look great!

--Matt

 

I've been horribly sick and in and out of the hospital all week. I'm finally getting to be on the up and up now, so maybe I'll be able to get it going next weekend.

--Matt

 

Got the rotors mounted to the hats tonight. No big surprises. Permeated confirmed that 5he thread locker 27100 that I have is equivalent to the specified Loctite 271. All tq'd down to 25 lb/ft and double-checked. I also taped and threaded the adapter nipple for the hoses into the calipers. Should be good to go for Saturday! The auto arts store had 32oz bottles of Valvoline Synthetic DOT3/4 on sale for 5 bucks, so I picked a couple of those up as well justin case my first brake bleed experience doesn't go swimmingly. It has a higher boiling point than the mini stuff too.

No lock finding a 11mm line wrench locally. I may have to give that one a go with an open end wrench. Bad idea?

--Matt

 

Just don't put any sealant on the swivel ends of the ss hoses and nipples. Or the hard lines. Pipe thread only.