Actually all rotors are produced this way. There's a great American myth that Porsche has their cast in but this was rebutted by a Brembo engineer as great car hype and simply untrue as he himself was involved in producing some of their rotors. The molds would be unreal in his mind to produce alone.

There are those who supply chamfered holes in the rotor but beware; no company truly does this to the complete hole as the inner edges are not done in this manner, they are square cut from the drilling. Careful what you read.

Why drilled rotors? 1. Reduced weight, 2. Improved pad bite, 3. Enhanced wet weather performance, 3. Better removal of pad dust, 4. They look cool. Personally I find 4 to the most common reason for them when asked for.

My take on their use; not for heavy track use where temps are elevated unless you plan on a spare set for potential damages. Lower life span. Street use is fine for a daily driver who doesn't see 800* rotor temps. Use them with the understanding that you'll be taking some life out of something: rotors and pads. Like everyone else in this business they are shipped to all types of end users. It's all about what you want.

 

a couple of pics of shoehorn expertise. These are the AK 16 x 6.5 wheels; a 1/4'" spacer is needed in the front for axial clearance; radial clearance is by Tarox. no spacer needed for volks 16 x 7 wheels.

 

a pic of the rotor and caliper

 

I would like to keep all the good brake discussion threads in Tires, Wheels and Brakes Forum so I moved this thread.

Thank you all for a very informative and lively discussion.

 

I posted on the SCMM forum (Southern California Mini Maniacs) a thread about the custom Wilwood Big Brake kit that was just installed on my '03 MCS. I thought it would be appropriate to post the info and some pics I just took in this section. Again, I worked with one of the largest distributors of Wilwood products and my car was the test bed/measurement vehicle for this very custom kit. Please note that this kit is quite different from the one that Wilwood just developed for the Mini (caliper, rotor, hat, and mounting bracket). The specs for the set-up on my car are as follows:

Wilwood 6-piston Superlite calipers (SL6R Radial Mount) - red color!
Custom, billet aluminum, mounting bracket
Wilwood 12.90 x 1.1" directionaly vented and slotted steel rotors
Custom, billet aluminum, hat
Stainless steel brake lines
Wilwood PolyMatrix brake pads (Q)
Ate Blue brake fluid

Attached is a pic of this big brake kit. Please note that I have 17" Centerline Excel wheels (+42 mm offset), H-Sport springs and Koni shocks. The scalloping in the rotor and hat is for heat transfer and some modest weight reduction. The extra thickness of these rotors allows for much better heat dissipation. The Wilwood "Q" pad is a street pad that generates very low brake dust levels. There are more aggressive pads for racing purposes, but I was told the "Q" version would work well both off and on the track. If I need to switch to another pad, the process is very easy and only requires removal of the wheel.

Once I have more experience with this new kit, it probably will be available through several of the local and regional Mini tuners. I shall also be getting a Wilwood set-up for the rear wheels as soon as the caliper with integral handbrake is released. This caliper will be 2-piston and the rotor will be somewhat smaller in diameter than the front, but with the same features. The aesthetic balance without loss of brake bias should be awesome! BTW, the normal color of the calipers is black, but I chose red because I think that goes very well with Indi Blue . More on the rear brake kit at a later time....

 

AAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH HHHHHHHH
after 10 years of dealing in metric measurements I get frustrated trying to convert back to the dark ages of inches
I'd love to see the molds as well, not to mention the tool wear reports from the machines that cut the 20000 interrupted cuts per minute.
Ryephile->what I would call myself is a junior engineer/senior designer; 10 years designing brake calipers, don't actually have an engineering degree...but working on it; I have been given pretty free reign in my designs, though. last caliper I worked on I had a lot of machining locating-scheme constraints, but the package was all mine. I improved an old caliper-reduced deflection 15%, made it fit with new pad retraction features(even got a patent for the attachment method), but I am an engineer in title and reputation only. I am a member of mich-mini...MrMay...oops, there goes my internet annonimity

 

Bob,

I like your brake setup.
Could you post a pic without the wheel please?

Thanks,
Alex

 

jlm, I can't keep-up with all that you are doing for power, suspension, and braking!

As you probably remember, I too have the Volk CE28Ns (16x7). I'm very pleasantly surprised that your Volks clear! What offset did you go with? Also, is this what you got from PROMINI?

http://www.promini.com/product-exec/product_id/213

Thanks.

 

Caminifan -- (from your question below), no I don't have any empirical data. But if you use some common sense you can see for yourself the benefits. For example, picture a caliper applying force to a rotor to slow down the rotor from turning. It will take less force to slow a lighter rotor than a heavier rotor. That makes sense to me. Also, a car with lighter rotors will be easier to slow down as the overall weight of the car is less. This may only be a few lbs, but I'm only talking general here. But certainly, larger rotors have benefits too, such that they can dissipate heat better as you say. As toddtce has said there are a lot of variables and it is complicated, and I have just picked out one variable. To me, lighter is better, but it doesn't appear feasible for extreme braking needs, i.e., track racing, unless more exotic materials are used, i.e., ceramic rotors?

My thoughts on your below comments/question, is that those car manufacturers and owners may not be that concerned about being economical but are thinking in terms of pure performance. Perpaps for the everage driver of these cars, they don't go to the track that often and use extreme braking conditions to the extent that the brakes may get stress cracks, or at least it may take awhile for it to happen. It may eventually happen, but it may be awhile -- and they have the money to replace them too. Another comment I have is that if you only replace the pads, you can get squeeling, so I think I heard that BMW recommends you replace the rotors when you replace the pads (not sure about this, but anyway...), so if one does that then their rotor life is only as long as the pads. Thus, it probably doesn't matter if those rotors are cross drilled. However, I've heard that pad life is shortened with you use rotors that have things that can catch on the pads, such as holes and slots. This is all just something to think about.

This is all good stuff and I am constantly learning here, and appreciate the education. :smile: Toddtce is doing some good things designing brakes for the MINI community and I am thankful we have someone of his caliber here. For me, I'm going to stick with 15 inch wheels, so my options are limited, and weight is a big factor to me, but with the CVT in manual mode I use engine braking liberally so it is not as useful/crucial. :smile:

 

Thanks hune for moving this to the correct forum. Leave it to my moderator self to forget that it's Wheel, Tire, and Brake Forum!

 

tony:

i put that kit for 16" wheels on over a year ago and at the time, the rear rotor was mistakenly too large. It looks like they fixed it. I'm not sure of the wheel offset for the volks...probably 42mm. in 16 x7.

If you put a straightedge across the rim, inner side, and measure to the bolt-up surface, I get 5.70"

 

I appreciate the reply John. I believe that we have two offset options for us (Volk CE28Ns, 16x7), and yes, 42 (+) is one... that is what I have. Good news.

I did some research last night and found that BlueThunder "announced" these on MINI2 like 2 years ago! How I missed that, and your slapping them a year back, I don't know...

I'm going to call PROMINI to get a weight delta, and to inquire about what's involved with pad replacement (it seems that some are easier than others). John, after a year's of use and abuse, and NY's seasons, are the rotors keeping their luster? You had already mentioned that they are performing well for you, thus the aesthetic concern...

Thanks for the real world measurment!!! I'm going-out to my MCS to track down a boot rattle, again, and I'll see if I get the same figure (5.7). Thanks again!

 

Sorry about that --- 328 x 27.9 mm

 

Alex,

Attached is a pic without the wheel. Note that the brake pads haven't been inserted and the pad retaining bolt is not in place.As an aside, this particular system won't work on wheels less than 17". It's possible that a smaller diameter rotor, e.g., 310 mm, might work on 16" wheels, but I'm not sure. Perhaps some of the experts might comment on that...

 

^^oooh! Funky techno-tweakie looking, I dig What's the price on this kit?

 

RECOOP,

thanks for the pic. I appreciate it.
Looks good and I am interested in it.

Thanks,
Alex

 

beautiful!

 

Thanks for the compliments; I also think this new brake kit is great. The kit on my car (17" wheels) with the red calipers is $1850, while the same 6-piston kit with standard black calipers is $1750. As previously stated, the package includes:

Wilwood 6-piston Superlite calipers (SL6R Radial Mount)
Custom, billet aluminum, mounting bracket
Wilwood 328x28mm (12.9x1.1") directionaly vented and slotted steel rotors
Custom, billet-aluminum, hat
Stainless steel brake lines
Wilwood PolyMatrix brake pads (select from a number of different grips)

I just talked to the distributor and was told that a custom kit could be made for 16" wheels. He said the rotors would be 310 x 28mm (12.2 x 1.1"), with the same calipers, etc. Obviously, the hat would have to be designed. The pricing would be the same as for the 17" wheel kit. He'd be willing to do the 16" version if enough interest was expressed by the Mini community. If any of you are interested in one of these kits (17" or 16"), send me a PM and I'll pass it on. Perhaps I can get the distributor to come on this forum and answer questions, etc.

 

Ryan I have the Zimmermann Drilled/Slotted replacement rotor,with Zimmermann pads. Didn't notice how much of an improvement they made until I was turning in my first MC, (wich had the same set-up) and test drove an MCS with OEM brakes. Almost smashed into the car in front of me. When you change your rotors and pads thier is about a 300 mile break-in period, before they really work best, especially if they have a zinc coating.

.

 

Just PM'd you Recoop! Thanks.

 

$1850 is (a big) chunk to spend on a front brake kit and is in same range as for many of the other big brake competitors. Once you add it you really need to also think about how to balance brake bias in the rear brakes- and I know you are working on that from your earlier post but again- what is the cost? Custom work doesn't always need to be done.
The stock MINI brakes have roughly a 76/24 front/rear brake bias. With a larger front brake kit that front number could approach 88. Hopefully since you are working with one vendor you can have them take this into consideration as you work on the design for the rear brakes.

The alternative is to go with a functional brake upgrade that allows for a less showy but balanced big brake kit that maintains as much of the stock brake bias front/rear as possible. Simple and functional and much less expensive. At least it's worth a look-
just contact Todd at TCE and he can give you the run down on their latest offerings.
If you have an idea of a brake kit for the MINI you can discuss it with him, he is willing to work with MINI owners and keep prices down.

 

"$1850 is chunk to spend on a front brake kit and is in same range as for many of the other big brake competitors. Once you add it you really need to also think about how to balance brake bias in the rear brakes- and I know you are working on that from your earlier post but again- what is the cost? Custom work doesn't always need to be done."


The cost for the red rotors is $1850, while the black is $1750. Yes, the pricing is similar to other kits, but what is appealing are the wider rotors, the thin, 6-piston calipers, the hat and the mounting bracket. The bracket and radial calipers allow fitment without modifying the mounting area on the car. Perhaps the word "custom" need not be used, but I chose it to distinguish this kit from the Mini kit that Wilwood is currently marketing. I agree that the kit is somewhat pricey, and perhaps it's not for everyone who wants a big break kit. But couldn't this be said for many of the other big brake kits on the market?


"The alternative is to go with a functional brake upgrade that allows for a less showy but balanced big brake kit that maintains as much of the stock brake bias front/rear as possible. Simple and functional and much less expensive. "


I appreciate your comments, and, as mentioned above, this kit may not be for everyone. BTW, it is my understanding that the kit, esp. the hat, was not designed to be "showy". That its functionality may also lend some aesthetic appeal seems, IMO, to be a plus. The company I am working with is very acutely aware of brake bias issues with the Mini, and I have been assured that brake bias is a critical factor in the design and development of their front and rear kits for the Mini.


"just contact Todd at TCE and he can give you the run down on their latest offerings. If you have an idea of a brake kit for the MINI you can discuss it with him, he is willing to work with MINI owners and keep prices down."


I am sure that Todd at TCE is doing some very fine work. Please note that the ideas for the kit on my car, except for the choice of color and slotted rotors, were not mine. The distributor designed the kit. He is the expert, and has suggested to me what he thinks would be best for the Mini. Expanding the application to 16" wheels doesn't seem to be too great a leap.

Many thanks :smile: ,

 

Hey Bob, nice work on the kit thus far. I'd reconsider the value of a smaller kit when conparing it to the Wilwood Factory kits (as I've termed them) given that they will undoubtedly offer their kit with DP calipers in red finish shortly also. Given the rotors then are the same size the value of a $900-1000 kit vs that of $1800 will be a bit blurred in my mind.

I'm content to work the more hard core racer level than those who look for the 'arrest me red' style yet given market considerations I will most likely have to cave to some level of bling! lol I hope to see the final fit of the 'drilled, slotted, and plated' package on the S here in PHX when I final fit the matcing rears.

I considered the BSL6n but felt it not to my liking for a few reasons, including that of target price. Granted if we could source a propery sized caliper of multi piston configuration for a lesser price it might find its way into the line up. A plus as you know is wheel clearance on the Narrow Six. How have you made out on wheel fit issues? Need for spacers etc for various apps?

Keep up the good work on your end. Looks like I better get to the powder coaters...

 

Todd,

Many thanks for the note; however, I am just an "end user". I'll pass your comments on to the designer of the set-up on my car. I agree that the 6-piston calipers (SL6R) that are being used do raise the price point, and perhaps one could easily get good functionality with different and less costly calipers. Still, there seems to be a market for big brake kits such as the one on my car, as well as other kits in a similar price range.

My Centerline Excel wheels clear quite nicely, and with room to spare. I know that other wheels are going to be tried to see if there are any fitment issues. But, as you point out, the narrower calipers should help to minimize this problem. When more info is available, I'm sure it will be posted.

Good luck with your projects...

 

Todd, I would say you have a definate nitch with the 15" wheels. The best brake that can fit under a 15" would be great for those of us that track the cars. The stock brakes just cannot handle the heat, I want a nice consistant brake with good heat sinking abilities, 4 pot calipers and in my dreams fereodo ds2500 pads.
Ben