Ben,

I think there may be some confusion here.

My kits have now been 'streamlined' to only the 13" size for 17"+ wheels.
I, and others, will offer the Wilwood Factory kit (when out) for those with 16"+wheels.

However, none of these will fit under 15" wheels. I'm fully understanding of your requirements for the application and am prepaired to help you meet the goal on a custom basis if you're serious about it. Keep in mind that your needs represent a very small portion of those who are considering such purchases so it's not likely that it would become a common item. Perhaps I'm wrong? If you'd wish to discuss it more please give me a call.

 

Cross-drilled rotors work fine, and for street use cracking would not normally be an issue. Use them on the track, even the OEM Porsche units and, they're still more likely to develop stress cracks. Those rotors were designed for street use. You'd be hard pressed to ever push those brakes hard enough on the street to reach a typical operating temp from track use. Add in a hot summer day and 30 minute sessions and the abuse is quite extraordinary.

I did throw on a set of Greens for the last track day and they worked better than the stockers, but not anywhere near what I want for this car.

StopTechs are going on my MCS next week and then off to Thunderhill Aug 8th for some track time. I'll report back my findings.

My biggest complaints with the stock brakes at the track:

1. Fade, especially summer time fade at Thill, expecting 95+ temps. I've not had an issue yet that has caused pucker factor. The point is to never have a pucker factor possibility in the first place.
2. Vague feeling in the pedal shortly after initial press. I like lots of initial bite with linear feel at later stages. The initial bite feels just ok, but then the feel begins to go away pretty quickly.

Maybe I'm expecting too much? Since I also spend a lot of track time on a motorcycle (20+days a season), I've come to expect exceptional braking performance. The braking power of a modern sportbike is awesome. I hope this kit will give me more of what I'm looking for. If I had my preference, I'd want brakes that could stand the car on its nose. All my bikes can do that.

Phil

 

This is a query to Section8: How about a little more info on the Zimmerman rotors. I have been looking at them for a long time, but have held off because the performance wasn't supposed to be different from stock, and the potential for stress cracks in the rotors. It seems you feel that they are an improvement over the stock set-up. Have you done any track with this set-up? What pads were you using, and any source / prices for those rotors? Many thanks!

 

Nice to see some others grasp the issues here pretty well. Phil puts the basics of my position on drilled rotors to print quite well. You can use them where you wish for whatever reason you like, but heavy track use will surely take from their life span.

His reasoning behind choosing to fit a BBK is sound <despite his brand choice :-> in that his the resistance to fade as well as improved pedal feel and response are key. This is the net result of any well engineered package and I'm sure he'll be pleased with the final result. Not all products will give you the same results however; it's based on proper component matching and such. Simply putting on a same size rotor of different brand will not produce this effect for example. It's the final result of all the parts being paired together.

Find a friend who wants to do some back to back up there and I'll fix him up with one of mine and you guys can run 'em both into the ground!

 

I've lost track; can you guys help me gather a list of current brake upgrades?!

Pads (stock caliper):
Ferodo 2500 and 3000
EBC Green and Red Stuff
Mintex Red-box, M1144 and M1155

Rotors (OE replacemet)
Power Slot
EBC
Brembo
Helix
Zimmerman

Big Brake Kits: (and approx $$$)
UUC/SSBC for 17" factory or 16" aftermarket wheel $1275
Wilwood "Factory" (released soon?) $????
TCE 13" rotor for 17"+ wheel, starting at $1059
Brembo GT for 17"+ wheel $2109
Tar-ox for 16"+ wheel $2096
StopTech, needs spacers and 17"+ $1699

Am I missing anything?

 

Ryan,

You left out the big brake kit that I posted (#55, 64, 68):

a) 17" wheels [$1750 msrp with black calipers; additional $100 for red]
Wilwood BNSL6R calipers (6-piston, narrow profile)
Wilwood GT series directional-vane rotors (328mm or 12.9" x 27.9mm or 1.1")
Custom hat and mounting bracket, stainless lines, Wilwood Polymatrix pads

b) 16" wheels (in development) [similar pricing structure]
Similar to above, but with 310mm or 12.2" rotors; other details to be announced

c) Rear brake kit (in development) [price tbd] --- this kit may not be necessary for those with 16" wheels and the 16" front kit

:smile: :smile: I was told today by the developer that if five (5) people would commit to purchasing a 16" kit, the cost of the kit for those people would be $1600.

Again, if anyone is interested in these kits, please send me a pm or e-mail, and I'll tell you how to get in touch with the distributor/developer of these brake kits. When I get his permission, I'll post the company name, website, phone number, etc.

 

Didn't much of this or another thread start out referencing an AP kit?

 

I talked to Wilwood last week and the price for the base kit (plain rotors) was $924 and with drilled and slotted rotors $1034. Red calipers were extra but they didn't have a firm price yet. These prices didn't include the brake lines which added $89 to each. In summary--

$1013 Base kit (rotors, black calipers, SS brake lines)
$1123 Drilled and slotted rotors
$xxxx Red calipers

They said they would be shipping in 10 days as they are waiting on rotors and hats.

Todd, this makes your 13" kit pricing look pretty good. Will you also be able to offer red calipers? I need these to match the rears on my car as I already painted them red. Will your kit work on a daily driver that sees rain. I live in Oregon, nuff said. Thanks

Dan

 

RECOOP,

Maybe I missed it but does the kit you have on the car fit the standard 17" S-Lites? I'm going to being using those wheels as winter wheels and would rather not have to change out rotors/calipers twice a year,

Bruce

 

Bruce,

We haven't tried it with the S-Lites yet, but that certainly will be done and results will be posted very soon. The impression I got was the kit would work with the S-Lites.

 

Why thank you.. but I already knew that! I'm just trying to get the point out to everyone else.! lol

Seriously, the pricing of my TCE kits and what you get over the WW kit makes much difference. That was the plan. Granted wheel fit issues are still a problem for some, but with two rotor options at least we can package pretty tight. The standard .81 rotor is still way overkill for any stret machine. Only those who are hardcore on the track NEED the 1.10 package. Oregon rain doesn't scare me, the kit is fine in the wet. The only issue where the arguement for fully booted calipers is in the winter use of heavy salts. Dust, dirt? Have you seen what I race on?

I'm more than happy to help folks get the best buy for their needs. Wider, drilled, zinc etc. I cannot however offer you the box WWs with red paint. This one you'll have to do yourself. They are doing only a number of calipers in this and for now the FSL is not one of them. I can tell you that the six pots go up about $200 per kit in red. The FSL would be the same if available. I simply can't justify this cost in my mind. I can link you to a customer who painted his own FSLs and I'm guessing he didn't spend $200....

I'm putting up final shots and such in the VENDOR section in a few on the S here with the 'loaded' rotors front and rear. Check them out. With this in mind I pulled the low miles plain rotors off and left them on the hats. This one off set will be available to someone for a substantial discount. Figured it easier to sell them at a discount than unbolt them and have no firm use. If you're interested give me a ring.

And I also know this shop that has the Wilwood Factory kits available WITH hoses for a bit less money.....Did I mention I updated the web pages today?

 

That would be cool, but I have no friends. LOL

Honestly, I hope these StopTech's work out. I don't like making a $2,000 mistake. I'm running Kosei 17 inch, and it looks like no spacers will be required, but need to double-check that before my guy installs the kit.

Phil

 

I once upgraded the brakes on my '65 289 "Street Cobra" with a system of my own desgin. after driving around the neighbor hood to make sure everything was good, I decided to try a 100 - 0 stop. the car was very authentic with only lap belts. I hit the brakes and I slammed into the sterring wheel hard! My knee locked and I couldn't take my foot off the brake. When I came to a stop I was very worried that I had bent a very expensive original AC Cobra steering wheel. This was the closest I ever came to throwing myself through the wind shield Great brakes! I loved them! I even had some fun with my friends who turned white as ghosts and said they have never stopped so hard and so quickly.

Those who think that slamming on the brakes and inducing the ABS provides the shortest stopping distances are wrong. Inducing ABS will add about 10' to a 60-0 stop regardless of braking system (One of our local Mini racers demonstarated this with stock and a BBK)

 

One thing that isn't really talked about, is if and/or how much the wheel offset will be changed when changing to a certain BBK. Does anyone have the figures for each kit as to if and/or how much the offset is changed?

 

The offset remains the same until you need to start adding spacers to clear the caliper - this depends on the wheels you are using. I need a 5mm spacer for my Stoptechs to clear my 17" SSR comps.

 

That's not necessarilly true.

Given that wheel offset (or back spacing as we call it in racing) is based on the location of the wheel relative to the rotor is sits upon this can vary a bit.

The stock rotor has a specified thicness in the 'hat' area. Usually this is .250" (not having notes at home I can't check the MINI spec) however when the BBK is fit the cross section of this may or may not be the same.

Nearly all my hats are .300" thick so yes, you do alter the back spacing slightly. Not sure all manufactures do this or will fess up to it, but it's done to offer a bit more wheel spoke to caliper clearance without effecting stud grip length much. Also by way of design the cross of .300 stays constant though the the angular aspect (or ramp) of the hat for stiffness. About 20% more material than some of the hats on the market. Some hats on production rotors are thicker; about .280 or so and this makes it a direct replacement in that case.

In any case, should the builder use a hat of less than stock then you may have issues you didn't know existed.....like tires rubbing the struts. Here the stock size is less so the wheel is now 'in' more than normal. Not good. Better out than in for most cases.

There are a few more things than meet the eye at times.

 

The stock Mini rotor is metric sized and has a face thickness of 5mm or real close to .200 (front and rear). The difference between .200 and .300 is 3mm. If you where to use a rotor with 5mm face thickness the front track width will not change at all.

 

Correct on the math, not sure on the exact number. I'll review it tomorrow.

However nearly all hats from aftermarket manufactures are .250 and thicker. That's pretty much the 'industry standard'. If there is such a thing. When dealing in the aluminum material of the hat I'd say for a street car this is about as thin as I'd go. Open wheel car, maybe less. You get to tigh a radius at the bend.

 

I am using only a 3mm spacer with my Stoptechs & SSR Comps and they clear just fine.

 

Yeah I thought a 3mm might work - I just happened to have the 5mm's laying around so went with those :smile:

 

RECOOP,
Do you have more of an overall shot of the front of your car with the brakes behind the wheels?


Thanks.

Fred

 

Front 'cross' is .250". On my spec sheet here in the shop.

 

I used a micrometer on the stock rotor and it is exactly 5mm. Where did you get the spec? The stock rotors are metric. 5mm is very common among the smaller european and japanese cars.

 

I also don't think it makes any noticable difference at all.

 

Don't have the parts handy now, but what I measured some time back. Like he said; does it really matter? What are we speaking of here? About .050"? In this case 'industry standard' as I call it, helps us with some clearance. Let's move on.