Strange deal with my "new to me" R52 Cooper S (07).
The car brakes fine under normal use, but when there is a big event on the freeway, it feels like I'm not gonna make it in the "normal" distance ("normal" being the distance I'm accustomed to) and the ABS doesn't trigger so it looks like I could be pressing the pedal harder... No ABS warning, and I've felt it once or twice on loose road surfaces so I know it works. I'm not quite sure how the brakes can feel normal 99% of the time and craptastic in an emergency slow down.

Discs look fine, and either way the brakes are not hot when that happens. I would understand brake fade but that's not it... Pads look thick too, hard to tell if they might be glazed. Fluid? Can't tell when it was done last, but brakes are not spongy in normal use... Tires? Not the best (michelin AS3?) but since I'm not even triggering ABS, I'm not sure. I'm gonna do the fluid first but I'm not holding my breath... My other car is an S4 which will put me in the windshield despite its heavier weight. But as far as I understand how this works, bigger/better brakes generally are better *only* under duress (i.e. they resist brake fade longer). After that, any standard brake system should have enough power to lock up the wheels or get into ABS and it's all about tire compound... Not something I can experiment with for giggles on the freeway though, and I hate replacing 4 new michelins and find out that's not the issue.. Are stock cooper S brakes known to be crap in emergency situations? Or just mine ? Would a more aggressive pad help ?

I've taken the car on twisty mountain road romps, no issues. Every day use, no issues. It's JUST emergency slowdown from 85->20 that absolutely suck... ????

Edit: I should point out the dealer that sold the car wrote something about "resurfacing rotors" in the doc that came with - could it be that they left old pads with a newer flatter disc and therefore they do not contact the disc fully...?? I think fluid #1, and mechanic #2 (no time) .

 

Gotta look...
Could be undersized rotors, bad pads, etc...might be glazed rotors, or even just a "sport " pad that needs some heat to work better....many pads are barely ok when cold, but get better when hot... If you had great braking on a mountain road...I bet this it it...many folks get a "sport pad, then hate cold stops...
Fluid I'd only an issue when brakes get hot and BOIL...NOT WHEN COLD, like on the highway...unless air in in them, but it would ALWAYS BE BAD...
If you do not know what too look for, get your car into a shop for an inspection....might be free...tell them the issue.

 

It sounds like you just did not press hard enough to lock up the wheels, therefore, the abs did not come on. Why blame the car? To stop quicker press harder until the abs kicks in. What did you want? Minis have good brakes. Motor on.

 

Nawwwww...
Many "sport" pads suck when cold, but are great and bite when warm...
Few folks IMO need them full time...most are better off switching pads for track days....
Major issue is OEM ish pads good cold....but can be destroyed by a track day...and folks say....hmm..race or track brakes, I want them on my car...sounds good...and they "upgrade" their pads....and on a twisty road, they can be good, but for a panic stop on the highway with COLD brakes, they are crap.....
No such thing as an "all purpose pad".....
The rotors might be glazed too...can make it happen too....
Stock mini brakes ARE good...but only as good as the parts that are used to matain them....both in quality, and application.

 

It's going in tonight.... Granted I don't have to do emergency slowdowns often but if it fails to do so one time only, that's one time too many.

The sports pad explanation makes the most sense, it's definitely a "bad on cold brakes" situation, I did not think of it because this is a cab and I don't think people track their cabs that much and there were zero performance updates to the car.

As to not pressing hard enough, please ;-) When all of a sudden you NEED to brake, do you really think I would brake halfway ? ;-) There's probably an imprint of the pedal on the floorboard - I meant it "felt" like that because the brake force did not feel proportional to my pushing of the brakes (like any other car I own, even oldies with non-assisted anything) - I imagine the ABS might have triggered at lower speeds, but this was 80-20, not 80-zero... The ABS is anti-lock up, this didn't feel like the brakes had enough power to lock up, that's my beef.... Again, hard to replicate for giggles, and cold pads for sure... I'll just have it inspected - again and probably shell out another grand, again! Water pump, airbag, shock towers, Xbrace, New shocks, all in one month, this is starting to add up
But the car is fun !

 

tell me this

how bad is your brake dust?

The factory pads which are pretty darn sticky, are also SOFT and dust horribly. If you don't experience horrible dust on front wheels, some one put in a different pad and that's quite possibly the problem.

I'd invest in some EBC reds and see what's up. A fluid change won't hurt anything either.

 

I would experiment a little... find a safe place that you can do some stop and go testing...

Get it up to speed and stand on the brakes to the point of feeling the ABS kicking in, so you know just how hard you have to press to get to kick in.

I have pushed my 2007 R52 S JCW, and when I stand on the binders it comes to a stop real quick, without the ABS, but if I really jam the fright pedal I can get it to kick back at me.

Motor on!

 

To answer the question above, no I don't get that much brake dust at all. In fact the wheels looked clean after 40 days, until we took them off for the shocks install and then you could tell there was a light dusting on them. Nothing like my other cars though - I think you got it... The mechanic tested it and all components are fine, even the fluid tested good. He sorta agreed with me that the braking from illegal freeway speeds was not as aggressive as it might be, but not deficient either, within "normal" ! Didn't charge me a penny...

He (and I ) think the pads are probably el cheapo "last forever but don't perform well" replacements that the non-mini dealer installed when reconditioning the car. Kinda like those 60K miles warranty tires some people buy - "yes, I'd like tires made of stone please." Grip? don't care about that" ;-)

I will experiment with current ABS trigger points on an empty road just for my info, and replace the pads ASAP. I guess my other daily driver just brakes a lot harder with less effort and more assist... But in a panic braking situation, pedal push is not the issue... EBC reds it is !!

PS: after a couple weeks on Koni FSDs, I must say that was the biggest bang for the $

 

Had another near miss tonight... Guy in front of me in the city goes through an intersection and decides to stop mid intersection after all for no obvious reason... I almost nailed him, not because I was not watching, the car was just not braking well at all...

This time I decided to experiment a little... Empty road near my house, went up to 40-50 a couple times and nailed the brakes: The car brakes so-so. I CANNOT trigger ABS. I know it would be easier on a greasy or wet road, but I should be able to trigger ABS on a dry road, shouldn't I ? The pedal feels hard and underboosted for a modern car, feels like my old 912 in fact. Would an ABS light flash if I could get into ABS ? I can't tell...

Another weird thing is I finally cleaned my wheels last week (2 months later), both rear and front right were filthy. Front left was not... That threw me for a loop... If the left front brake was not operating as well (and generating less dust) I'd expect the car to pull right on braking. It does not....

I hate to throw $ at the car without a clear idea, but the car is gonna get me in a wreck so I'm having the pros look at it again...

 

Wow....driving for 6+ months on defective brakes by your description.....
Might want to get it fixed someday....
Don't just "throw $$" at it...find the issue and fix it...

 

Can you inspect the pads and look to see if the left front brake isn't wearing evenly with the front right? Did you lock up your brakes at all when you did the hard brake? The ABS system basically prevents the wheels from locking up. When the ABS kicks in you should be able to tell. How much life is left on the pads? The pads could be glazed, brake fluid could be full of moisture, other options listed above already, etc. You might just be at the point, if you feel the brakes are not performing well, to change them out or get a shop to take a look and see what they have to say.

 

You might have a seized piston in one of your calipers. MINIs have corner braking control so if one brake caliper isn't working, you might not notice a pull. Try turning off the traction control and hitting the brakes.

As for pads, the stock BMW pads are the best factory pads of any brand of car I've driven for normal street use. Only problem is, they're dusty.

EBC Reds seem to be the most recommended around the MINI forums.

Flush your brake fluid every 2 years.

 

on 5-13 you said EBC red pads sounded like a good move

it sounds like you ignored your own voices

Today you say after 2 months you noticed the right side wheels are dirtier!

I noticed dust build up after 1 day on MINI OE pads!

hmmmmmm

what is your 'other daily driver' that performs differently?

A MINI is light .... getting ABS to kick in might be tough for that reason.

I've been driving cars with ABS for a long time (plankowner of a 2002 MINI S) and I can't think of a time I felt ABS kick in on this or any other car. But I admit to being a nanny driver in part because when I drive my 79 Mini, I ALWAYS give myself a LOT of stopping room despite the Cooper S disk brakes that have been fitted.

 

Well that's just it... I took it to the shop right away the first time it happened (well maybe the second, you never know the first time if it was you or the car). I asked them to test the fluid, look around and test drive it.
They tested it an said it braked normally for a mini! At the time I also had a B8 Audi S4 which put your head in the windshield under braking so I thought maybe it was me... (sold it)

Also, under normal application, it brakes fine. I'm not hitting the brakes like an F1 driver every day and this is not a track car. I'm talking "oh ****" application, which only happens maybe 5 times a year (when someone does something stupid or whatever). Say freeway speeds to almost stopped, or like that intersection surprise. Now I "know" something's wrong if my 50y old classic feels safer under braking than the mini. I just don't know what, I looked at all that stuff but I can't identify anything in particular. It's going back to the shop tomorrow.

 

Fair point but that's because the mechanic tested the fluid, presumably looked at the pads (?), and swore up and down it performed normally after he test drove it. (also told me the stock mini pads were perfectly fine ad not to bother with reds). I chalked it up to being spoiled by my previous car. Now after another "soiled underpants moment" (which is not something I am accustomed to with other cars, I don't drive like a maniac on the road), I'm reverting to "something's clearly wrong". I will let you know if they find something !

I did not know about the possibility of the car compensating for one bad brake pad with corner/stability control or whatever, but that's a possibility (if true). Because one wheel is never dusty, yet the car brakes straight !! Thanks for that idea... It's the only logical explanation so far... But yeah after posting this, I called the shop and told them to look again...

 

(also told me the stock mini pads were perfectly fine ad not to bother with reds)

at the time, wasn't there a question as to if these WERE OE pads, or cheapo's ..... OE pads dust BIG TIME .... your posted history says these are NOT OE pads!

Now you add the possibility of a poor install job of crap pads . . .

************
but if you've lived with it this long . . . .

{I'd find a new mechanic ...... NO ....... I learned how to do some of this myself to help determine when a poor mechanic or blood sucking dealer was ****ing me!}

 

Damn I have to be careful with wording... I don't know what's on the car. Only that he looked and ruled them out, and said it braked OK.

I don't know that I run OEM or not, only that he told me not to bother with Reds and stick with OEM (doesn't mean that's what I have). I got the car from a Ford dealer so it's possible they put pads made of petrified wood in there.
Anyway, no worries, thanks for the tips - even if they find nothing I will have at bare minimum the fluid changed and the pads replaced...

Come to think of it Mini (dealer) did an inspetion when the airbag light came up (seat), and they did not report anything brake related either... Looking fwd to posting a solution !!

 

I got the car from a Ford dealer

omg .... stop .... I'm ripping my gut out from laughter


bring it over to my house

I do brakes for folks

you buy the parts and I do the work

then you buy lunch

 

Ok so things are better now, not sure if it's 100% but I'll know next time there's hard braking involved (it's one thing to test on an empty road but there's less reference points, it's another in real life with another car's bumper growing bigger in your windshield).

The Ford dealer (which I suspected went cheap on reconditioning the car) resurfaced the discs instead of putting new ones and then used the cheapest hardest possible pads. Combo of crappy bad not playing nice with the discs was suspected, despite those pads being new... My mechanic had never seen those before, he agreed they were probably crap (zero dust but zero braking!!). New front discs and ceramic pads and the car feels better, even in gentle driving. More interestingly, the brake pedal feels better with a little more travel before if gets harder - less of an on/off switch. I can't explain that part but I can feel it. I'll know for sure next time someone does something stupid in front of me !!!

 

thanks for the update .... getting feedback that tells us we were on or off base helps us improve our ability to help.

 

Glad you were able to get it taken care of and you feel your ability to stop, when needed, has greatly improved! It's important to be able to trust the brakes and it's a good thing you could tell something wasn't right.

 

Just to be clear on this, ABS does not help you stop quicker. ABS allows you to have steering control during a panic stop and will lengthen the distance required to stop when engaged.

 

Well...not quite...
Locked up tires make a car take LONGER to stop and you loose steering.....

 

" Ford dealer (which I suspected went cheap on reconditioning the car) resurfaced the discs instead of putting new ones and then used the cheapest hardest possible pads. "

Sounds about right. They called around for MINI pads and brakes to ready to sell the car. MINI Dealership told them the price, found out it does cost money , they said well let just fix it as cheap as possible to sell , put it in the front corner of the lot ( like most used MINIs ) and hope it sells.


Glad you were able to get things done and I hope they did not fix cheap on other things.

 

Glad to hear it is better now!!
Going cheap on brakes can get dangerous...cheap hard pads, undersized rotors...can lead to issues like you saw...
Good to hear it is fixed!! Enjoy your car, and glad to hear you feel more safe...cause I do!!