Hi NAM,

I have a set of RE71Rs made in 2015, bought them in Feb 2020, they were unmounted old stock. They have seen 6 track events 3-4 20 minutes sessions each all under 90-110 degree California sun, and they still look like they have a lot of thread left. I know these tires can heat cycle before they show cord. Based on them feeling greasy, their age, and track time, can someone tell me if my tires need replacing or if my driving style needs correcting? They start to feel greasy on the track and feel hard when I press my fingernail on them compared to my other tires, but then I am new to track driving and I'm maybe overdriving the tires. I'm ready to ditch these tires too for a new set of RE71Rs while they're on sale at Costco though. below is a video of me at Buttonwillow sliding a little, I admit I was having too much fun. Am I at fault and tires are still good? or do I need new tires? Thanks,

 

You don't tell us at what pressures cold you started out and at what pressures hot you ended up. If you have a thick rear bar set full hard, that might have contributed to your oversteer, that plus a little "red mist" fogging up your helmet . That one tire has even wear and, if the rest are the same, the number of heat cycles aren't excessive. Keep in mind, you might buy brand new tires that are a couple of years old so yours aren't over the hill age-wise.

 

I started with 27 cold and it went up to 32-33 hot. I have 22mm Alta sway bar in the middle setting. I am not sure I understand what "red mist" is, my helmet is an open face one without any visors.

In your last sentence, are you saying that because they are old stock, they may have dry rotted already/heat-cycled out already regardless of track miles? They are stamped 2015, mounted new n 2020. not sure how Discount Tire stored them. Or are you saying that they should still be good?

 

NC TRACKRAT! Good to see you!

TO the OP, yes, please share your tire pressures. I also have RE-71s but have none of the sliding you are experiencing in the video.

Edit: sorry - saw you posted pressures.

 

4yr is the limit with the track day organizations
I run with.

What is your alignment setting front and rear?

I also run 215/45/17 RE71r at 27psi cold/33Hot, I have had no issues with slipping.

Stock sways, MeisterR ClubRace coilovers, power flex everything.

 

Hi, sorry I don’t know my alignment settings. I have fixed camber plates in the front, adjustable rear arms. I had a mini specialist shop do the alignment.

4yr limit. That makes sense. I guess it’s time to get new re71rs.

It’s easy to blame the car. Do any of you think it’s my fault? Could It be that I’m not smooth with my inputs that they are causing “oversteer”?

 

It’s more likely that you would cause understeer rather than over steer. If you aren’t smooth or able to transfer the weight you’ll get understeer. Unless your rear tires let go and then it’ll be oversteer.

It looks like you need to work on your lines that can attribute to the loss of traction.

 

Thanks, this is what I was thinking. My rear tires letting go and me needing to tidy up my lines. I feel like this is where I struggle too. I’m having a hard time keeping my lines tidy because the car likes to either understeer or oversteers and I’m rarely at the sweet spot of rotation. However, I find the car easier to transfer load to the front then oversteer than not. Deleted rear seats and single muffler, my rear is light. I’ll try the sway bar at lowest setting to hopefully tame the car a little. I’ll also adjust my pedal commander to less aggressive.

I really want more seat time. I’m also ready for new tires. I just don’t want the fresh tires to mask my bad habits.

 

Start by being less twitchy on the wheel and using all of the available lane you have on the track. A good training aid as long as you have a wheel pedals and shifter setup is Assetto Corsa for when you can’t get real seat time.

Also look up “String Theory”, not the quantum physics one, the racing one, once you understand that it will help you immensely.

 

Thanks, I have g29 on ps4 and have Pcars 2 and GT sport. Also have AC on pc. I’m also familiar with the string theory, and that’s where I struggle fine tuning steering and throttle inputs. I get it in theory, hard to perfect in practice with the back end constantly getting loose. I find myself stepping on the gas just so I don't spin out. I’ll get fresh tires and then get more seat time. Just didn’t want to throw these tires if I’m to blame. But then again, tires are 5 years old, i got them at a deal so I’m not to sad to ditch them/turn them into spares.

Thanks for the help.

 

To the OP, "Red Mist" is a term used by Skip Barber Chief Instructor Bruce MacInnes many years ago. It's a mysterious gas that invades a driver's helmet causing him (or her) to get overly aggressive, forgetting smoothness and consistency but concentrating on chasing the car ahead. As for tire pressures, I start with 32 cold F & R, aiming for 40-41 hot up front. The rears are just along for the ride usually get to 37-38. I, too, have a 22mm solid rear bar set in the middle. -2neg front, -1.5 neg rear. Unless your tires have been subjected to considerable UV, they should still be good for what you're doing....unless, with that low pressure you've been running, the shoulders may be severely worn.

 

Red mist describes it perfectly! That’s what I had, but not so much chasing the car but more on lap times. Tires have been exposed to 90-110 degrees, they’re old agewise, and the first three events I was running them 23cold 28-29 hot before i was told/knew better.

Thanks again. This explains it. Probably a combination of red mist and less than ideal tire conditions.

 

Just to give an update, I went to Big Willow last Sunday on fresh RE71rs and didn’t experience any of the loose rear end. I would say it could be due to the new tires or could also be because of my new awareness of “red mist” thanks to NC trackrat. Below is a link to a video showing how I did. Hoping to get critiques.

 

brand new re71's will get greasy on me after 10 minutes of hard laps, they overheat very easy. Unless you are doing time trials consider switching to a rs4 if you can find them (they sell out every year) they can handle repeated hot laps for an entire session. Even heat cycled rs4 resist that greasy feeling re71s get

 

Hey Mr. Blah, you read my mind. I was gonna ask for recommendations on good tires that handle repeated hot laps since I'm just starting out and learning. Do you mind giving me pointers based on my last event? I know i need to work on being smoother with brake, throttle and steering inputs as well as tidying up my lines. Thanks in advance.

Thanks for the tip on the RS4s. They only come in 205/55/16 according to tire rack. I have 16x7 rpf1s et 35. will i be ok with that size? I really liked the 205 50 though.

 

your lines looked good, I would need to be in the right seat to see more it's hard to tell if you are on the throttle soon enough and trail braking. Be careful shifting cresting that hill as it can unsettle the car, I would shift before turn in or after crest. That last big sweeper can you go outside more an use all of the track? hard to tell if there's marbles out there, sometimes it's hard if everyone is staying inside

also might want to shift the way e36 guys do it, dont grab the handle but palm it in the direction you want it to go it helps prevent miss shifts.

I prefer more sidewall it lets the tire flex more

 

Thanks, you are right on. Yes, I can use all of the track on the big sweeper, but it scares me too much because getting one wheel off can be catastrophic there. I'm trail braking in the some of the corners (turns 1,3,4,and 5), while I just lift in faster ones (2,6,7,8 and 9). I'm still struggling with being gentle getting off the brakes and getting back on the gas. I really appreciate your tip on the shifting as I actually mishifted a lot going to 2nd instead of 4th going over the crest.

when you say palm, do you mean put my hand over the shifter instead of gripping it from the side? I'll watch and review your videos closely to see what you mean.

 

it's hard to see in video's because my hand covers the shifter but I Typically do not grab onto it, i push it with my hand, you are pushing up or down to a corner, or straight up or down for 3rd/4th. This ensures it goes where you want, the engine / cables get moved around from torque so where you think the shifter needs to be is not really always right. Less of a problem in R53 but in cars with the shifter attached to the trans it's a big problem, E36/E46 bmw come to mind, and my 135i does it too.

It does help with miss shifting on a r53 too

 

Now I get it, thanks to you Mr Blah. like gliding it with my palm instead of completely grabbing. i guess a rounder **** helps too.

 

Congrats on your new-found smoothness! Minor observations: Don't hook your thumbs over the steering wheel spokes. If you were to go "off" with an abrupt stop, you could break 'em. Also, try to stay upright in the seat rather than leaning when turning. (Think X-Y axis in order to maintain your reference to what the car is actually doing). It may help to bring your seat closer to the steering wheel just a "click". Mr. Blah is right on with palming the shifter. Always remember to "Look ahead, think ahead". You can't do anything about where you are but you can do something about where you're going. Enjoy the ride!

 

Thanks for the tip on the thumb. At first I didnt know what to do, then i looked closely at mr blah’s hands in his videos. I’m going to train myself not to lock my thumb. I’ll also move the seat forward. Funny you caught that because I felt too far back.

when you say xy axis, do you mean in relation to the rotation of the car? Like my head/body should be (0,0) on the theoretical cartesian plane all the time? I know i need to better be in my seat, but nor sure what you mean.

 

I like to move my seat so far forward that I cannot lock my knees, it's a reflex to put your feet out to brace yourself and if you lock your knees you risk breaking your legs, much like locking your thumbs.

I have a lot of practice crashing my motorcycles but if you are gonna hit something let go of the steering wheel, make damn sure your hands are not holding the steerign wheel and crossing in front of the airbag if you have one like I do

 

When you maintain an upright posture in your seat, you have a much better feel for the attitude of the car. If you're leaning and the car's also leaning, you're not able to make accurate adjustments. Mr. Blah is again on point about letting go of the wheel if a crash is imminent. There's an in-car video of Danica Patrick crashing in a NASCAR race and the instant before hitting the barrier, she yanks her hands away from the steering wheel. Another recommendation: If your helmet doesn't have a visor, get one that does and always use it. Flying debris can hit you in the face even in a closed car and, if an airbag were to deploy, it will save you from a serious facial abrasion. Don't ask me how I know!

 

not sure how else I can sit upright without my elbows being bent at 90 degrees. Is that fine?

also, I’m only 5’6 140lb and i slide around in the sparco f200 even with schroth rallye 4 tight. Add Padding?

Ok, really learning a lot here. I really appreciate the little pointers since I just started the hobby. I have an open face helmet and will look into getting one with a visor.

I also see mr blah use gloves, probably another good idea for safety.

I mean, for me, safety is more important than having fun. I won’t enjoy tracking if i know i’m less safe.

 

I'm not saying you need to be sitting at 90 degrees to the steering wheel. You just want to refrain from leaning left or right in turns. I'm only 5'-9" and 150lb. so I know what you mean...But lighter is faster, right?