Revised, see reply #7.

 

Not a bad idea and design looks OK but, If those calipers get hot (and they will) you can kiss those nylon ties good-bye

 

Nice. Similar to what I did, but your routing looks more direct. Just to note though, not sure why you are directing them to the calipers. The best is to direct the air to the center of the rotor on vented rotors.

 

I like how your project is coming along . I agree 100% with the comment about the nylon melting. I've had the ABS wires get a little " deformed " already I removed the fog lights and mounted soem scoops and hose in their place. With your application you can have it both ways . Maby I'll add your system and doublethe breeze Nice work keep usposted.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Here's my try at some ducts. I used the first listed duct at this site, but I've seen these plastic ducts other places.

http://www.discoveryparts.com/cgi-bi...roduct=ducting

 

The larger 3" inlet flange is also sold by Pegasus Racing. Because I used smaller hoses I avoided having to cut the fender liner. I am also considering removing the fog lights, but that's more of a project. I will be testing my setup extensively at Gingerman on Friday, May 27th, a ProSport Drivers Group lapping day, and I'll post my findings. Again, stock rotors with Ferodo 2500 pads.

 

Brake Duct prototypes
Here are the original photos of these custom fabricated front brakes ducts. They have since been painted black. Molded fiberglass inlets with 1.5" high temperature silicon hoses, they were made by Doug Livingston in Indianapolis for a three-day DE at Putnam Park racetrack. Doug runs ProSport Driver's Group, an open-lapping group that rents Putnam Park frequently and has also run groups at Gingerman and Mid-Ohio for fast, experienced drivers. My request was for a setup that would attach without drilling to the air dam under the front of the car, be easy to take on and off, get air to the calipers (because there is not an easy way to cool both sides of the vented rotors themselves), and be streetable (not lower than current ride height).

The inlets mount with a single bolt to a stock attachment point, replacing one of the points holding the stiff, black air dam in place. The dam itself is cut out to receive the fibreglass inlet.

These ducts were tested at Blackhawk Farms Raceway on Friday June 10. The air temp was 90 degrees and the track temps were 100-110 degrees.
Blackhawk is notorious for being hard on brakes. I ran four twenty-five minute sessions. There was new fluid (ATE Blue), new stock rotors (seasoned before the event), new PF97 pads in the front; rear pads were Ferodo 2500s.

I experienced no fade whatsoever in any of the runs. These are very hard pads (= Hawk Blues) and require a little more pedal effort to get the ABS to kick in at the threshold, compared to the more grabby Ferodos. At Blackhawk you must have pads that will hold together in extreme heat.

For more information about obtaining these ducts from Doug, call him at 317-289-7221. He's in Indianpolis; anyone in his area will be able to work with him on the installation directly.

A FAQ: Where do the hoses attach to the rotor or the backing plate? the exit of duct hose attaches to the caliper; when you change pads, the hose stays attached to the pad holder.

Charles High
Milwaukee, WI
Attached Thumbnails

 

Are these "Brake Ducts" considered necessary for track racing, or just better to have, just in case ?

I have a BBK up-front and aftwermarket pads (Red Stuff) on the rears

Never had any brake fade to my knowledge, many track laps, no true racing

 

Very nice, they look like they should work pretty well.

Any problems with scraping? Is your car lowered? I know that i scrape that plastic wind diffuser under the front bumper often on bump roads due to being so low.

 

I have only scraped once, lightly. Clearance is fine - remember these are set in to the air dam just behind and under the plastic fascia are only fractions lower. My car has stock sports suspension +.

As to the nylon ties, they have not melted. They have a 500 degree plus tolerance according to Doug.

I am running at Blackhawk again on Friday June 24th and will update next weekend. These seem to be a great and inexpensive way to eliminate fade without going to a big brake kit.

 

Yah, looks good. I just know that on my lowered car, the air dam is very scratched up from unavoidable bumps and driveways. But on stock suspension it should work amazingly well.

 

Looks great!

Got any closeups of the attachment method at the rotor?

With the A4, the car comes with a dust shield in stock form that can be modified to hold a Pegasus Racing Aluminum brake duct flanged outlet. I'd like to arrange a similar setup on the Mini. I'm hoping I can get away without upgrading to a Stoptech kit.

 

is it possible to put the duct behind the lower front grille?

 

Some very good engineer types have removed the fog lights and run ducts from there. The direct route would require going through the inner fender (liner). One ambitious fabricator enlarged those openings to take a larger hose, then placed a grille in front to match the others.

 

hmm I'm actually referring to the front grille in the lower part of the bumper. Is there enough clearance in there to fit the duct and the flexible pipe thing?

 

To answer your question, I don't think you have room for an inlet and duct there.

I'll bow out of this thread by adding that I did a second test day last Friday at Blackhawk. Air temperature was 94 degrees. I had fresh ATE blue fluid, but used the same PF97 pads and the same stock rotors in front. I used Ferodo 2500 in the rears. As before, I experienced no brake fade. The pads only required a little more pedal effort as they got hot, towareds the end of a twenty-five minute session. These are 1.5 inch high-temp silicon ducts, really not very large, but they are doing a great job.

 

Hi all... wanted to see if anyone else has done a creative brake ducting... I plan to go through the fog light opening, which is just a black cover on my non-foglight equiped car... I know of fast forward's design, but want to go through the foglight opening, which provides less clearance ... I plan to fabricate some type of inlet ducts... Wondering if anyone has used bmw e30 front inlet ducts....

will let and post pictures when done...

matt

 

pmello, nice integration into that front air dam...very subtle with the black duct.

 

Last summer I removed my fog lights and made them into ducts for the brakes. It took some material removal and the use of a pair of preformed ducts with some 3" hose to complete the project. The results proved to be positive as I was able to complete my normal test run without the usual fade at the bottom.

 

Great idea pmello Now I've got something else to do

 

Not interesting in selling this but here is some info for you ducters;

The brake duct needs to be pointed at the inner hub and wheel bearing area for best results. Not at the caliper really and NOT at one side of the rotor. Putting cold air on the inner half of the rotor may result in uneven rotor temps and premature cracking and wear. It will also change the effectiveness of the pads in use due to a change in Cf based on temps.

Most quality rotors (stock and aftermarket) are vented rotors- meaning they have an air gap in the middle of the rotor cheeks. This is where the cooling should take place. Pointing the duct to the middle is difficult but worth it in the end.

Next, if you are interested in cutting holes in the bumper...you can source some nifty air inlets very cheap from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty (secret race car supply house) as they offer 3" round rolled aluminum flanges that can be easily riveted to the bumper. Smaller ones too maybe for the MINI? The hose is then hose clamped to the rings. Common SCAT and CAT ducting rings and hoses for airplanes. (and race cars) Or you can do the NACA duct thing from Pegasus and other stock car supply outlets.

Happy shopping.

 

Todd, nice source with that site thanks ! I might be re doing mine and that company has some great items.

Randy
M7 Tuning

 

Little update. The 3 in aluminum dryer hose tears when you bottom out. I've replaced the hose 3 times so far. The hose costs $7 at Home Depot. I liked it because it was stiff and I could point it at the little openings around the hub bearing. This is a compromise as you have to make sure that nothing gets fouled at full lock (steering left or right). Guess I'll have to get the good high temp silicone hose from the Aircraft listing.

It does work! I go to a 3/4 mi shifter cart track in up state NY (SLMP) twice a year. This place is VERY tought on brakes. There are 4 straights where you get past 70 and then into some tight turns. There is no time to cool the brakes. Most cars get only 2 good laps before hard fade and 4 to 5 before you boil the good kind of (Blue/Mutol 600 Etc.) fluid!!! It was very hot when I went in June and the brakes were a lot better. I had Frodo 2500 pads on this year with the good fluid (Castrol SRF) and the ducts. I could still make them fade some at the 4 /5 lap! I think I do like the Frodo 2500 slightly better tha the Mintex pads I had last year.

I'm going to remove the dust shields before I go this time (Sept 4/5). Any thoughts on this TCE?? My setup is just Frodo pads, Castrol SRF and the ducts. (We'll think about that BBK for next year)

 

.....ehhh Hemm .... read post #3 ...

I use a good size duct and only a 1.5" hose. I get a ton of air flow and can direct it right into the center of my rotor. The hose is strapped to the top of the lower A arm and directs the air flow just over the lower ball joint, into an opening in the front hub.

 

How long will it be before someone does an "off" of the JCW fiberglass/plastic duct available in UK (I think) with a new backing plate?