hmmmm im thinking someone is an a**hole.

My main problem is my 4000 pound 2006 325i brakes better than my mini by far, or aleast it feels like it.

Thanks the rest of you for you valuable help i will probaly be using some if it in the near future

 

Word.

 

The stock calipers are heavy boat anchors. Also, I had fade with the stock set up (not on the street, but on the track a lot!) Low cost mods...

Fluid upgrade.... $30 or so....
Metal Bushings ..... $120 for both ends.
Pads of your choice < $200.

So for under $400, you'll get much, much better performance. For those of you that think the stock brakes are great (avoided deer et al) put this stuff on and see. The stock stopping distance isn't that great....

Matt

 

If you are using stock brakes on the track (not auto-cross) and are not experiencing fade, then you are not using them. They are good for three or four laps before they go soft.

To the original question; I would swap fluid and put in a set of Hawk pads on the front. More than enough for most drivers and moderate track use.

 

I'm going to call BS on this. I drive hard in the mountains for stretches of an hour or more and the fade with stock brakes was very noticeable and dangerous. With the BBK I have NO issues. AutoX you are on the course for maybe 60 seconds..... so no big deal. I think upgraded pads and rotors are a real help. I had power slots around with 2500s and it did pretty well. At the Dragon I noticed many cars experienceing fade whether they knew it or not. I like my AP Racing BBK but there are others that are cheaper that people like as well. When I bought mine I wanted a "racing" name but did not want to spend the $ on Brembos.

 

It's all in the pads. Save your money on stainless steel lines unless you are tracking the car. In that case, good quality (such as ATE) brake fluid will pay off too. As stated earlier, the fancy looking rotors are just bling.

Pads, pads, pads. BMWs come stock with great (typically Pagid) pads that dust like crazy but also stop very well with little fade. I don't know what the mini comes with since mine hasn't been built yet. See if you can find some Performance Friction "Z" pads - they are a street/track pad with decent cold bite and excellent hot performance. Hawk also makes excellent street/track pads.

High performance pads will tend to dust more and be noisier. BMW/mini chose the pads that they did to reduce noise and dust and therefore reduce warranty claims and complaints to JD Powers.

HTH,

Michael

 

My 4x4 Dodge Ram never ever ever came close to the amount of dust these factory pads throw out!!! Many people even claim the dealer installed replacements are less dusty! Many people on here are getting new pads just to cut down the dust. I personally don't think BMW gave dust a seconds thought. Just my .02.

 

Less deflection, more even pressure and wear. I hade fade with EBC greens, and the switch to metal bushings and better fluid ELIMINATED it. If I'd known how good the combo would be, I don't think I would have upgraded to a used BBK (but for $530, with pads and rotors turned, who could pass it by?). The largest driver to a BBK shouldn't be the massive 13+ inch rotors, but the wilwood race drops TONS of weight, all with a slightly bigger rotor (11.75, I think). But that wasn't available used. Grrr!

If you haven't felt fade with the stock set up, maybe you just don't drive as aggressivly as others. There are many people that have. One of my friends had it so bad on a track day that he spend a couple grand the VERY NEXT DAY on a StopTech kit..... But he tracks pretty hard....

Matt

 

don't put their age with their profile.

 

Or, it COULD BE that I'm simply using them enough and not over-braking or over-cooking entries into turns. Late and heavy braking only buys you so much... I love the attitude on this board - everyone's the expert driver.

Since I drive a regular Cooper, I have to maximize the momentum I carry around the track. And, that's what I do...

Much of it depends on the track layout... Texas World Speedway is easier on the brakes. Motorsports Ranch is harder on them. Even so, no fade to date, even when I was running stock pads. And, I'm usually clicking off excellent laptimes given the car's measly 110 hp at the wheels.

 

Like you?

What are you trying to say? Be careful about making judgements you cant back up.

 

what is this.....Match.com? I'm 55

 

oh dear....here i was thinking he was making an age generalization when he was just honestly looking for a match. I apologize There is an age thread where people have posted their age

 

I'm sure with the less HP, you have less energy to dissapate. Just because you don't experience fade (with 2/3rds of the HP) doesn't mean that the fade experienced by others is due to poor driving style. While smooth, smooth, smooth rules the roadcoarse, almost every track rat I know in an S has had to change the stock set up to get effective braking, across many driving styles. (diving at Infineon, Laguna Seca and Thunderhill) Some even from street use (I live in some wickedly fun hills).

Matt

 

 

Quote-"Since I drive a regular Cooper, I have to maximize the momentum I carry around the track. And, that's what I do..."

So... you don't have the power to come out of the slower corners as fast as an S. That means you have to brake less to keep momentum. Duh. Thanks for the tip Bob Bondurant.

However, your point about different tracks is usually true. Some require heavier braking than others.

 

On the street the stock brakes are fine... on the track switch to a Race Pad.. like performance friction 97 (which squeal, dust, permanently darken parts of your wheels) but stop well, and can handle the heat... I added caliper stiffeners and ATE or Motul 600 brake fluid and the set-up works well... in my opinion... if your finding the brakes don't work on the street then you need a fluid change or pad change.... Also, braking is a skill we all need to work on, like to squeeze and brake hard to slow but then to get off the brakes so they can cool and not overheat them like you don't want to overheat your tires...

 

In all actuality, the MCS will only truly walk the MC on a straight, drivers being relatively equal... Even on a horsepower friendly course like Texas World Speedway. In the twisties and on short courses, it's pretty even in my experience. And, even with the MCS, it's just as important to maximize momentum to post better lap times.

Driving style probably has more to do with it than you think - the smoothest drivers I know hardly ever go through brakes, and yet they go around the track just about as fast as the "stand on the pedals" type. I never hear them come in complaining of fade. I certainly think that if you experience fade, the smart thing is to do something about it - I just think a lot of people over-drive the brakes on the track (in all makes and models).

Same goes for the track layout - some are just harder on brakes than others.

 

In the Cooper, you can roll on the throttle earlier in the corner, too. No worries about getting on boost and invoking any unnecessary wheelspin on the exit.

So yeah, not only do you brake less because of the theoretically lower entry speed, you can accelerate earlier,too - effectively negating the hp difference between platforms.

You're welcome for the tip - no charge. And thanks for the sarcasm - everyone loves that. In all actuality, that is what everyone should be doing, regardless of hp. To use your word, "Duh". It's not all about going in slow, and using hp to pull you out. If you can carry more into a turn and hit your marks, you'll still exit faster, regardless of how much hp you have.

 

Tires play a big factor in braking too. I've seen different braking figures posted (from various sources, i.e., car mags, MINI literature, etc) for the different MINI models, with some at 135 ft or so from 60 mph, and some in the low 120's. Low 120's is very very good. Nowadays, the best supercars can brake in the low 100's, which is phenomenal. Perhaps the average family car brakes in 140's (some do get in 130's).

 

One thing that I forgot to mention is that I am running my low-buck brake ducts... those help much more on the track than for autocrossing.

I basically took out the fog lights, cut a hole in the inner fender liner, and put in some ducting.

 

Very, very true... braking with my Azenis was pretty good... braking with the Pilot Sport Cups is AWESOME.

 

just plain sucks!

Here's some trivia, the Ford Escape (SUV) does a 60-0 in just over 120 feet. My Acura MDX, in so long a distance that it's freaking scary!

Matt

 

BTW, dude that's one SMOKIN' 'Stang ya got there!

 

berk- i was just kidding. Didn't mean any harm.

i don't personally know many girls that are really into cars, but im sure
there are lots out there. :smile: