Folks, I have had my Mini Cooper S for nearly 3 and 1/2 years and have been running on my 16" Dunlop Run Flats. I mostly run around town and on weekend trips. The harsh suspespension response due to road bumps was something I have put up with as a trade-off to a great handling car. My wife has been somewhat less understanding.

Well, this week it was finally time to give my Mini new shoes and I went with a set of 17" ROH wheels with Fulda Exelero German tires. "Praise the Lord!" I've got a new and better car! Even going up an inch on the wheels did not offset the vast improvement in ridability and even quiet. Just when I thought the only hope was Koni FSD's.

This is of course not going to be news to many of you who have long since made the switch, but perhaps this little note will help others overcome their own hesitation or concern about their ride. It is a true revelation. The dynamics of the car have changed too with perhaps a little more understeer but mostly for the better.

Now who do I pray to in order to make sure I don't get a puncture...

Cheers

 

Very cool looking wheels!

 

St. Alec is looking down from above and, I'm sure, is very pleased.

 

Getting away from my run-flats when they wear out.
Going to carry a fix a flat kit.

 

huh, neat looking wheel. can you post a pict from a few feet back?

 

like those rims

 

The lip on those reminds me a little of the S-lites. Looks great.

 

Those wheels are frickin awesome. Any more pics? Specs? Places to read/see more?

mb

 

Whew, I knew wheels can get me emotional, but I guess I'm in good company! Thanks for the affirmation because I was a bit nervous about the "new look" at first.

The wheels come from ROH - www.rohwheels.com I think it is an Australian brand so I don't know about the US availability but I'm sure someone can get them in?

Cheers

 

Some more shots with the car. The wheels are in "shadow chrome" (also available in silver) and called "Mantis".

Cheers

 

The unfortuate fact of the 16" runflat option is that all the 195/55-16 runflats are good, but no where close to great. So moving to 17" non-runflat rubber will be a relevation, as you say. Of course, the non-runflat rubber also serves to hide the suspension flaws of the MINI S, which are many. Going to FSDs improves far more than ride quality. I'd put my FSD, 17" runflat equipped MINI S up against any MINI S with stock suspension and conventional tires for handling, comfort, cornering grip, and safety. Glad you're happy and the package looks nice. But respectfully speaking, the FSDs give you far more of what you wanted in terms of driving enhancement than any new non-runflat could ever. Plus, I don't have to worry about flats and the fact I have no spare!

 

Point taken and I guess a side-by-side comparison would be one way to really see and feel the respective benefits but I can't imagine the FSD's would cope as well with normal road roughness or reduce cabin noise.

But there was another issue, and that was cost. As I was going to have to replace the tires anyway, I bought the tires and wheels for less - and the Fulda's are quite highly regarded. And if I ever have to replace a tire it will cost less than half the R-F.

I did consider carefully the exposure to flats but having read many forums and talked to tire store guys, it is not clear that the run-flats were any guarantee either. A sidewall puncture puts you out of action in either case. Plus the availability of R-F's in this country (Australia) means you may be stranded for a couple of days waiting for one to get to you (a car reviewer testing a Porsche recently had this embarassing situation happen to him). The non-RF are pretty standard. Certainly the tire guy was full of stories of new BMW owners swapping new R-F's out right away.

Lastly, if a R-F does get an ordinary puncture, it appears debateable as to whether you should use them again (a long thread exists elsewhere).
That would be one expensive puncture! And the sealant should see you through on the non-RF unless it is really a bad one.

So, all in all I think this option works for me and the FSD's might still make it onto the OzMini in its next reincarnation.

Thanks for your input - it might help the next person make an even better informed decision!

Cheers

 

This thread moved from Performance: Mods Suspension to Tires, Wheels and Brakes on request by OzMini.

Nice looking wheels!

 

I love seeing new stuff and your wheels and tires sure are new to me, looks great

I also enjoyed the changeover to light wheels and good performance regular tires, its like the car got to kick its heavy boots off. I'm sure that altering the suspension can yield great results but I prefer to stay stock now and this was a positive change (which seems to help braking too). As you mention having a RF doesn't mean that you cannot get stranded with a damaged tire, and having a normal tire doesn't mean you will. I had 3 nails in a normal tire and just had a slow leak, and it was even repairable, so you never know.

Couldn't hurt to carry fix a flat kit though - anyone have suggestions as to a particularly good one? Is it worth buying the BMW kit the M Coupe has in it I wonder?

 

Nice Nice Wheels, I want a set but....

Bad news, never to bee seen in the US :(
Called the company that brings ROH into the country and he said he did not like them, so we will never see them on our shores :(

 

nicely done.

 

Tires and suspension are two different things that both need to be fixed. One could just as easily say that upgraded suspension serves to hide the flaws of the runflat tires. The tires serve as the suspension for the unsprung weight. Runflats are rigid and cause the car to hop on bumps instead of the tire flexing. If you add up the weight of the tires, wheels, brakes and other unsprung parts it is way over 200lbs that needs to be dampened. Since there are so many factors at work a side-by-side comparison is not likely to prove anything. Both cars might get down the road just as fast while each driver is compensating for different problems. No doubt upgrading the suspension will improve the handling, but it doesn't fix the problem with the tires being too rigid.

 

McLeonard, that is a great explanation and I completely agree.

From my reading, the role and appeal of the FSD's is that they help to compensate for the rigidity of the tires and short suspension travel by releaving sudden force without losing overall dampening action. The non-RF take care of some of the same forces by soaking them up in tire flex. They also soak up the smaller road irregularities and transmit less noise and vibration (also depending on the tires) - I can only assume that they will do this better than the FSD's with RF's.

I may be losing some handling on the margins where the stiff sidewalls may have played a part, but by going from 16" to 17" wheels I have probably minimized this.

I suppose the only value of the side-by-side would be to compare the net benefits (car with and without both FSD and RF) depending on what the driver seeks most. What would the two together be like?

As I use my car both as a daily driver and weekend getaway car, I'll favor the more comfortable ride over pure handling. My wife would certainly agree. But from my driving so far, I don't think I am giving up much of that either!

One of the best things of the Mini is that you can keep re-inventing it by making a few easy mods - especially when encouraged and assisted by these forums!

Cheers,
OzMini

 

How about this one...
http://new.minimania.com/web/Item/NM.../InvDetail.cfm

 

I recently changed from the Pirellis on my S to BF Goodrich KDW, the new ones called KDW2 on Tire Rack. (for now I kept the S-Lites)

Oh.

My.

God.

What a difference. I have not even really tried to push it and the difference is amazing on a few corners around town and an on ramp.

Also, the car actually goes striaght over minor imperfections in the road There is lots of construction in this area and so lots of places where the old lines have been ground down while traqffic is rerouted. Riding over them with the Pirellis was definitely a 2 hands firmly on teh wheel proposition as the tires would just about jerk the wheel out of your hands.

Typical road bumps are definitely still felt and still strong but they do not "ring" anymore like with the RF tires. Just a touch of extra damping but not enough to diminish the communication to the driver.

 

Sorry, but no way. I have winter and summer RFs. When I mounted my winter RFs, the handling was instantly noticeably vague. FSDs with my winter RFs makes the car handle, corner, grip as well if not better than with my summer RFs without FSDs. With my summer RFs, I know the improvement will be enormous. Bottomline is you don't really know how bad the stock shocks are until you get rid of them. They dive during turn-in and roll in corners. The FSDs keep the car ultra planted and there's zero body roll, no dip in braking or loose grip during launch, and the cornering is much more neutral. No new non-RF tire will do all that. And in addition to all that handling improvement, they soak up bumps amazingly, no matter during cornering or straights.

 

Thanks, worth considering - anyone have/use one?

As OzMini stated the only way to really *know* the differences between varying changes you would have to try them out yourself on your car. I cannot speak for changing the suspension out on my MCS, but I, like others here, can attest to the improvements in swapping to light wheels and good non RFs. Its not just a matter of money, but I personally do not want to potentially invalidate the entire suspension and related parts warranty coverage and give myself headaches if something comes up and the dealer doesn't not want to work around aftermarket parts (which I have had happen on BMWs) so the simple tire change out is a good option which is better yet with light wheels

 

Thanks Stevie for your experience... and I am still looking to put the FSD's on at some point.

Which to do first - the tires or the FSD's - is probably arguable as both may solve some similar problems (they both improve ride) but also each does other things as well. For instance the new tires I find much, much quieter which may be a function of both tread and sidewall stiffness. The FSD's I am sure would also improve handling and better soak up bigger bumps. So they are both somewhat complementary too. It would be great to hear about your "summer tire" experience.

Of course, budget issues and whether tires are ready to be replaced anyway may well hold the deciding vote on priority as does any lingering concern for dealership attitudes. But it looks like there are at least two great options for improvement of the suspension. Oh and then there's that bigger rear roll bar...

One other issue I did run across is that one tire dealer said that if I wanted to put non-RF's on the stock rims that I would need to get a waiver from my insurance company. He claimed the RF rims are specially designed for the stiff sidewalls whereas non-RF tires could peel off if they go flat . I had not heard that before and the guy could just have been trying to make sure I bought new rims (though going from 16" to 17", I was already committed), but it did make me wonder...

cheers