Let me just clarify on the six-twenty or so minute sessions . . . there was less than 1/4 left on the pads. I probably could have done another 2 sessions, but would have had to change pads before I went home.

THe great thing about all of these calipers is that it is that the pads are so easy to change.

Like I said, I'm trying B's this weekend. I'll give a report.

 

mtrspt5,

What track? Just curious. I've run 2 events at Lime Rock in addition to 4,000 commuter miles on these and there is plenty of pad and rotor left.

Watkins Glen is brutal on brakes...

 

The BP10 should be thought of as a mild street performance pad. Not an open track pad. They may do 'ok' on open track use but they will certainly leave something on the table for real braking performance.

The expected BP20 performance is likely to be a bit less of a street pad and lean more towards the track duty use. Yet still not to the level of A or B compounds for sure. Duel purpose? Perhaps but with the noise and dust levels not found in the BP10.

Build up around the slots may be pad breakdown from either elevated temp use or transfer from too much stop and go and baking the pads to the rotor. If the car is seeing up and down speeds and stopping in traffic and you sit with your food on the brake pedal you're asking for problems. Nearly always a problem with larger automatic tranny cars btw. The 20s may not transfer as much but we won't know for some time yet.

 

I spend a lot of time at Gingerman in Michigan. 1.9 miles long, 11 corners and the track is reasonable hard on brakes. This is the track I made the comments about. See pics

I also go up to Road America, which is 14 corners, double the distance . . much easier on brakes as there is a lot more time between corners for cooling.

 

Todd,

I'm pretty good about the brake pedal in stop and go traffic; I use the e-brake when I can or when I'm awake. At times I do forget because I'm being called on the phone or brain-fading about work. I hate brake problems like this, but a dual role car has never been a great idea.

As an aside, I recieved the new studs and jet nuts from Wilwood. no allen key insert in any of these...should I be concerned? I intend to replace all four.

 

If there's no allen drive the only way you'll get them in easily is double nutting it with some standard (non locking) nuts. Red loctite them btw and snug 'em up.

 

Okay, thanks...I no longer have my instructions. Can I bother you for a thread count and type so I don't destroy these?

 

No problem; the nuts needed are common 3/8-24.
Actually if you want to put them in with less hassle, put the loctite on the coarse thread, screw it in by hand then clamp the shank in the vise and turn the bracket. You may have to dress the shank a tad after if it turns but they are ultra hard so you won't do them any real harm.

 

Thanks Todd, sounds like a plan. Just awaiting the new rotors and pads.

 

meb, I had the "uneven pad deposit problem" on the Stoptechs I had on my Audi A6. One of the solutions for this is to temporarily run an aggressive pad with a different compound which will essentially scrub the existing pad material out of the rotor. Once that's done, you can switch back to the other pad and re-bed.

Another thing to keep in mind while we're on the topic... if you choose to drive race pads on the street and aren't very aggressive on them for a while, they can unbed themselves (at least the Pagid Oranges I used did). So if you do this be sure to go through a bedding cycle before each track event.

 

I thought about buying really aggressive pads for that reason. I'll do a wait and see. Un-bedding...can you explain? I try every now and again to perform a series of high speed almost track like stops just to keep things working...perhaps this is not a good idea

 

A couple of years ago I had the same pulsing pedal using EBC green pads. After doing my first track day, where they had us doing threshold braking exercises, the pulsing pedal was gone!

Agressive driving wins again.

 

Sorry Todd, I seem to be the hold up... I am leaving on Tues night for WGI and if I can get a wireless connection, I will post results on Wed night. Worse case I'll report when I get home on Thurs.

So far on the street, I think the BP20 pads are just as good as the BP10... not any noisier than the BP10 and slighly more dust. If they are a good street/track pad, I can live with dust.

Vince

 

I'm no braking expert, but this is how it was explained to me... Perhaps Todd can comment to make sure I got it right.

As you are probably aware, the purpose of bedding-in the brakes is to deposit pad material on the rotor. The pad deposit on the rotor rubbing against the pads provides much better friction than just a bare rotor against the pads. Different pads are made from different compounds. If you switch to pads with a different compound, you will have to rebed the brakes. The old pad deposit on the rotor will not provide the proper friction against the new pads you just installed because they are of different compounds. During the bedding-in process, the old pad deposit will be worn off the rotor, and material from the new pads will be deposited. So, to solve a problem with uneven pad deposits, go get a set of aggressive race pads with a different compound than you were using and go through another bedding cycle. The old pad deposits will be removed completely and the race pads will also take away a bit of the rotor, just as having the rotors "turned" at a machine shop would. StopTech actually had a set of aggressive pads that they would loan out to customers for this very purpose.

Mild braking with a sport or race pad on the street over a period of time can unbed the pad - i.e. remove the pad deposit on the rotor - and you will then need to rebed before you hit the track again. Failure to rebed could result in an uneven layer of pad material being built up as you take the brakes up in temperature too fast. So high-speed stops every once in a while would probably be a good thing to keep your pad deposit intact.

Hope that helps.

 

Sometimes, with good fortune, simply hammering on the brakes or performing another bedding cycle will help uneven pad deposits to work themselves out. It worked for me once. And then it came back a while later. So YMMV.

 

People tend to think if the rotor as nice and smooth. But reality is that it is porous. I see this all the time trying to get a nice zinc finish on them (only to have you rub it all off any how) but that's another story...

As the pad scrubs the rotor surface some of the pad material migrates into these pores and finally creates a bit of pad on pad if you will for the braking moment.

However as it was said, when you change the pads these two materials may no longer be happy neighbors. Now the new pad is unable to find material it recognizes and simply glides over what was there. For this reason a lot of times the pads and or the rotors are scuffed up with sandpaper to break the surface prior to installing new pads. *To quote one of the Stoptech guys, using an aluminum oxide paper (I believe it was) is not a good idea as this can put alum particals into the pores and further mess up a good thing. I can't speak from experience to say this is always the case but it seems a fair statement.

I'd urge anyone who changes pad compounds to consider this regardless of what pads they are. It's just good sense to me.

One of the worst to follow is the Performance Friction pad- this one puts down a lot of carbon and short of a fresh cut on the rotor it quite hard to overcome.

 

OK, the BP20 report from Watkins Glen.

First, thanks to Todd at TCE for arranging the pads for me to test. Todd should be your first and only call when looking for a BBK.

By way of background, I liked these pads on the street and was heading out to the track to see how they would do as a street/track pad. My first session on track I took it easy and was getting excited that I may have found the Holy Grail of brake pads.

However, as I pushed the car, I got some brake fad and a lot of pad wear and as such, I think I would classify these as light duty track pads. I have raced, over the years, with BMW and SCCA Club Racing and tend to brake very late (even in a DE setting). I think if you are a newer driver, these can be your "do it all" pad. If you really push the car and you are looking for a track pad, these may not be enough.

These pads are quiet, but do dust a fair amount. As for wear, I blew through about 1/2 of the pad material in one day.

Keep in mind that Watkins Glen is a HP/high speed track, so it may be tougher on brakes than some other tracks.

Now, if I could find a pad between the BP20 and the B compound!

Feel free to post specific questions.

Vince
Bimmer Lite

 

Pretty much what we expected from them I'd say.

Increased performance with the added wear rate but still a bit off the "hard core" race pad. For the weekend enthusiast this might prove the next step for track use over BP10 however.

 

I agree Todd, these are a better choice for most people than the BP10 and they will handle your track time needs if you aren't a track junkie.

Until you test the limit of your car on every lap, these pads a perfect all around pad.

Vince

 

Mine arrived last night. My Watkins glen date is July 14 or 16. But until then, they'll see lots of commuting miles - 150 miles a day. I'll report back about the daily grind - no punn - in about a week.

 

The BP20s have more initial cold bite than the BP10s - quite noticable. They feel better too. I haven't pushed these yet, however. By weeks end I'll have about 600 miles on these and then I'll give them a little heat.

The non-slotted rotors are definately quieter too. This may end up to be the ticket for us commuter, track type folks Todd. Watkins Glen in two weeks then a couple more events at LRP in August. By September I'll have about 8,000 miles on these. This is definately a better pairing than the slotted with BP10s.

 

I think I will just continue in this thread rather than starting a new one since my problem is directly relevant to the Wilwood brake kit.

The 11.75 Race kit was installed on my car last week with the E pads. The kit came with the vented rotors. On sunday I went out on a trackday. Initial feel was brilliant, everything I was hoping for from this brake kit. However after the trackday event, during my drive back home, I heard some funny noise when I pressed the brake paddle, most noticeable when slowing down from a slightly high speed. The brake still performs fine but there was this "whirling" kind of noise when they are pressed at their initial bite point. (I have heard similar noise from my previous car, Evolution VII, but the noise only happened when I left the car out of use for a while then after some heavy braking the noise went away) The noise is not so noticeable in stop/start traffic.

So the story goes, on Monday I put the BP10 pads in (cos I want to save the E pads for future track days) the noise went away, after a couple of days out of use, I took her out again today and that noise came back. The noise is difficult to describe in words lol but it's a kind of "wooh wahh whirling" kind of noise lol..it's like the pads and rotors don't quite like each other!!

Could it be that the pads and rotor are not bedded in properly? Or is this a normal characteristic? The brakes still perform superb but it's just the noise that bothers me...may be I should do some real hard braking? A friend of mine who has been running the same set up for a while experienced the same sensation with his kit when he changed to slotted rotors, he said that the non slotted gave no noise when he used them previously!!

Any ideas would be most helpful

 

I suspect that much of that is simply the venting of the rotor slots as well as a possible slight pulsing at the same frequency as the pad passes the slot. Slotted rotors have been shown to exhibit more noise. Non slotted rotors will not do either of these.

 

Thanks for the clarification Todd. I think I'll give them more mileage and see how they do in regard to the noise. Apart from that, definitely money well spent I'd say.