When I first installed the Wilwood kit in May, I was very concerned by the torque setting listed for the jet nuts - the two small self locking nuts that hold each caliper in place. I asked Todd about this at the time and his response was appropriate; basically follow the manual. The Wilwood manual states that these self locking nuts to be torqued at 47 ftlbs. When I attempted this on the first nut it felt like it striped...and upon inspection a week ago due to brake related noise, it indeed had. Wilwood has since changed the torque setting for these four self locking nuts to 32 ft/lbs.

Wilwood sent me four new self locking nuts and four new studs. Todd advised me about how to remove these. I broke two vises trying to get the first stud out of the braket. I won't even attempt to try the others. The amount of force required to get these out is quite uncommon. Todd's advise was to lock the stud in the vise and hammer at the braket with my fist...which worked for about three turns.

No brakes, no car and more unessessary frustration with this friggin car. If I cannot get the stud out I'll sell the kit for $300.00 as is; new BP20 calipers, new 12.2 directional vaned rotors - no slots or drill holes, used four piston calipers and hats. I'll get Brembos at this point.

Todd, this in no way reflects upon your professionalism. You've been extremely helpful about things beyond brakes. However, you should be at war with these idiots! I will never buy Wilwood again.

 

i'll take it

 

dibs if he misses

 

Two words......Stop Tech.
Jim

 

I am making my own 12.9 kit using the same wilwood brackets. I have two new brackets that I will have to change the studs out for longer ones no matter what. Maybe we can work something out...

 

If I can't get the stud out, I'll need to reinstall the stock brakes so I can drive the car. If I have to do that, I will not put the Wilwoods back back on. Then, you can have them. If I get the stud out, I'll keep them.

You'll need to order four more self locking nuts from Wilwood if I get rid of the kit - they are not designed to be re-used. The torque setting is 32 ft/lbs, not 47 ft/lbs FYI

 

Why don't you just let me get you two new brackets??

I'm curious to know where you bought your vises! lol The studs are loctited in place but man, clamping the stud between the jaws (the looong way) would give you nearly 2" of holding power to break the thread loose.

Let me see if I can get you something going to square it away for you.

 

A few observations (I have the 13.1" F/R kit installed):
1. the brackets don't seem to be the big ticket item in the TCE/Wilwood BBK. I'd imagine Todd to be the first to send new brackets your way.
2. those threaded inserts in the brackets are pretty sturdy, and maybe 12mm--how can you possibly strip them?
3. the title of the thread seems a little extreme, but it does say "can" just to avoid any over statement, I suppose. I can remember 2 times on NAM in the last year that a TCE/Wilwood BBK buyer had problems--a guy who had rotor warp/runout problems and now meb with the brackets. I'd guess Todd can tell us how many BBKs he's sold for MINIs and report on other problems, but my guess is the problem rate is very, very small. And this is aftermarket serious modification here, for which you'd expect a higher problem rate than OEM replacements.

I don't want this thread to end up with people thinking that they should avoid TCE/Wilwoods and start buying Brembos or StopTechs because they don't have problems, or are better because of this one experience.
There are lots of threads discussing the relative merits of TCE/Wilwoods and the other brands. I can report 100% satisfaction with my BBK--it's by far the best mod I have done on my car, even though it was the single most expensive kit to buy.

Best of luck with your problem Michael.

 

ACtually Mike the issue is not with one of my steel brackets and the clinch nuts, it's the Wilwood radial bracket of the DP caliper kits. They put the wrong tq spec on this many months ago and we (anyone selling them) have had issues with the jet-nuts being over tightened to the point of damage to the 3/8-24 thread. I was not aware of it until someone called me and asked why it was so high. I quoted the tq at perhaps 35lbs. The instructions said 47!

The subsequent sheets were corrected to 32 or so and this is not a problem. I'll guess that most who installed early kits did like me and never read a torque spec but simply snugged them up by feel.

Wilwood has sent out a few replacement studs to owners at my request. Including this kit. Getting the stud out of the bracket can be a bit difficult.

I've arranged for two new brackets to be made available if the customer wishes. If he would rather move on I understand and appologize for his inconveniences.

 

Todd,

You are a top rate professional in my opinion; you've offered your set up experience even if anecdotal, you've discussed your racing experiences with me and you are very careful about how you offer information. I don't think anyone can ask for more. My anger is not in any way directed towards you.

I don't really have the words to describe how I feel...but I'm someplace between anger and scared. Why? Two words, what if? What if that stud and nut let loose while I was at Watkins Glen for example. The torque setting was wrong by 33%! And I questioned this immediately after torquing the first self locking nut. I chose to reduce the torque setting on the other three to 37 ft/lbs based upon feel and experience.

I finally got the friggin stud out and the new one installed. So I don't need new brakets, but thank you very much for the offer Todd.

The vises...typical crap from the local stores. I've never had a vise break before, however. These two were hollow cast steel, crap!

I am pissed and on principle will probably go with Brembo if the Mini becomes a track only car. The Wilwoods work just fine, great perhaps. But I don't want to be injured or injure someone else. That's my bottom line.

When I cool off I may see this with a smile and just add this expereince to all the others that shape who I am.

Again, Todd, you stand out among other professionals. But I would urge you to have a frank conversation with Wilwood.

 

I believe I got the first 11.75" WW Race Kit, at least from Todd, and it's been fine. BUT, I did torque everything to spec. I never received notice of this important recognition... I'll inspect things over the weekend just to make sure. Can someone provide a photo so I know exactly what we're talking about here?

 

Hey Tony,

There are two self locking nuts per caliper - the ones that fasten the caliper to the studs on the braket. Those two self locking nuts should be torqued to 32 ft lbs - you have the same calipers that I do, but double check with Todd regarding your brakets; I upgraded my 11.75 kit to 12.2. So I imagine that the braket is a bit different.

Michael

 

Thanks Michael. Todd, when you have a moment, please let me know (here or PM). Thank you.

 

I would order four more for goofs and giggles. you'll need these when changing rotors...they should not be re-used.

 

The brackets are the same on all the Wilwood kits. Those who have the larger rotors simply fit the alum spacer onto the stud to shim it higher for the radius. And use of the thin spacers is by car as needed should there be any variance in castings etc.

They are a self locking reduced hexigon, reduced height, ring base nut. Mil spec MS21042. Commonly called a Jet-nut. (I love it when we talk tech) 3/8-24 thread. P/N MS21042-6

They probably are not in stock at Home Depot. They can be found at many race supply houses such as Pegasus Autoracing supplies, Truechoice, Essex, Coast Fabrication and more.

While I have 'some' they are really more for my race car work and not packaged for individual sale. And I am headed to Pikes Peak on Sunday for the week I cannot get some to anyone.

Tq spec on them is more in the order of 35-38lbs. However I'm certain that 32 will do fine. I believe you could get a couple of uses from them but certainly not many. Fitting them repeatedly will release the captiveness. (?)

 

Thanks Todd!

Just found this:

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/ds492.pdf

Still stating 47 ft-lbs? Maybe I'm reading it wrong...

So, from the exploded diagram, part #12?

 

That is the nut in question. Can't speak for the pdf, I know the print materials have been updated.

 

Thanks for the confirmation!