Ok I know I am in the minority here. I am a non-techinical driver just trying to get some input on my new tires. I just ditched my Pirelli 205-45-17 runflats for non-runflat Goodyear Eagle F1-GS-D3 (215/45/17).

I am not impressed . Let me preface by saying I do not race & never will. All I do is street driving (but I like to really push it in the twisties).

The Goodyears are taller than the Pirelli's & I swear I feel like I am sitting up higher in the car (maybe I am imagining it but I swear it feels noticeably higher)

On my runflats the ride was a bit bumpy but it was fine to me. While the Goodyears are smoother kinda-sorta if you wanna call it smoother when it really feels more like I am floating in a boat over the road On the Pirellis I felt like I was really part of every curve in the road (which was a good feeling for me) but on the Goodyears I feel like I am floating along the top of the road (& no longer one with it )

I don't have LSD so when I took off hard from a stop w/the runflats it felt a bit like an airplane lifting off but with the Goodyears it is worse. It feels like a plane taking off that has no turn control of the front tires.

On my runflats when I take some tough curves my Mini would sink into them & dare me to give it more gas. The more I mashed the gas the more it dug in (I swear I could almost feel G-forces ). Now on the Goodyears it feels like I am on the verge of losing control in a curve. The Goodyears haven't lost it or squealed at all but it just feels like I am in danger of loosing it & my Mini no longer screams "GIVE ME MORE GAS" it whispers "be careful". On my Pirelli's I always felt safe & never on the verge of being out of control.

Is it just me feeling the flex of the sidewalls on the non-runflats combined with the smoother ride floaty feeling that makes me feel like the new tires aren't gripping as well?

I have always read on NAM in thread after thread how runflats have no grip compared to when you ditch the runflats the ride will be amazing :impatient I am not finding it amazing Is it just me?

 

Count me in for someone who likes the runflats and plans to keep them when I buy new tires. Heck - last year, I bought snow tires (on S-Lites) for winter use... and I bought RUNFLAT snow tires!

I love the stiff sidewall. I like the fact it doesn't flex easily. It makes the steering feel more responsive - more "darty"... with a very sharp turn-in. Yes, I can understand the physics that say you will get more grip on the road if the tire is permitted to flex (and therefore more tire contacting the road), but the FEEL of the runflats is great to me.

Of course, the peace of mind that you are far less likely to get stranded (or have any real inconvenience) due to a puncture is a nice bonus.

I don't CARE about the harsher ride. I didn't buy a Cadillac. Compared to the ultra-stiff thorough aftermarket suspension upgrades I've done on my Mustang, my MINI feels SMOOTH. So coming from my Mustang (which I still have), the runflats on the MINI are just fine.

As a street car, with sudden lane changes, and wanting to "feel the road" for that connectedness, I'll keep my runflats and the sharper turn-in feel, thank you very much.

Note: I even go a step further and keep my tires inflated to 40 psi.

 

Its not just you. I know what your talking about. I have never had anything on my '05 except the stock Runflats. The reason those felt safer to you in turns is because the side walls are much much stiffer. Thats why you can "run flat!"

An interesting little test is to let all the air out of a runflat. You'll notice that the tire looks just like the others that are full. I really dont like my runflats, mainly because they are pretty soft, and weigh as much a lead. Well, kinda .

I would think that the run flats and your goodyears have about the same "gripping power," its just the Runflats wont.....ehhh.....I guess flex as much as the non runflats.

*Steps off soap box*

 

Thanks Edge & Qwert. I was scared nobody would understand what I meant (in my quite longwinded description ) but what you guys said is right on how I feel. I do think the non-runflat "flex" gives me the feeling that I am about to loose control & the steering does feel much more responsive on runflats. Ah well I guess I will go back to runflats in about 2 years

ANYBODY WANNA BUY A SET OF GOODYEAR EAGLE's
w/about 500 miles on them

 

Believe it or not, I have 7k miles on my All season Perelli runflats, and I'm gonna need to get new one pretty soon!

 

Since you only have 500 miles on the Goodyears, they are just now breaking in. New tires have to have the 'slime' worn off (it's the lube they use in the molds when they make the tires so they come out of said molds easily). Give it another 500 miles and report back. I would be interested to see if your opinions stands, or if you've 'converted' to a non-RFer.

 

I made the exact same change, and I couldn't be happier with the GS-D3s. I found the tramlining on the Pirellis to be horrible -- had to concentrate to keep the car going in a straight line.

 

My Pirellis are max performance not all season but they lasted 17,000 miles. They still had more tread to go & woulda lasted longer had I rotated properly (stupid me )

Yeah I know about the 500 mile break-in & I am hoping they will improve but since the tires really aren't actually losing traction & sliding (they are just giving me an unsafe feeling) I dunno if it matters. Plus my runflats felt amazing from mile 20 with no break-in. I will def report back after 500 miles. I drove a major twitsy road last weekend & plan to drive it again after 500 miles & see if I can tell a difference.

 

define tramlining for me.

 

Like runflats for $$$ reasons. Haven't tried non runflats.

I can usually pickup used for pennies on the dollar.


Paul

 

How the hec do you do that? Please share cause my Pirelli runflats are $185 each (+ install) compared to $88 (on sale) for the Goodyears

 

I think the ride with run flats is fine with a few exceptions. There are two roads I've been on that I had to slow down or I would have lost the fillings in my teeth. But that is it. I recently put on Koni FSD shocks that made a little difference. Handling is still great, but the new shocks took the "sharpness" out of the bumps. I think the run flats get too much of the blame for the "harsh" ride. The suspension (especially in the MCS) and weight of your wheels are bigger factors.

 

See I can live with a bumpy ride all day. I can't live with losing any of my handling (or even felling like I have lost it when I haven't I just have dang FLEX now or whatever U wanna call it ). When I 1st got my Mini I would tell everybody "it won't lean" every time I went around a turn I was like see it won't lean. Now it leans

 

Ebay, Used here in the forums. ALways somebody looking to trade that harsh ride for something better. I'm willing to help them out. Just have to be patient. Picked up 4 17 Goodyear RSA runflats with less than 1K on them for $235 to my door.

Paul
Bargain Hunter

 

Thanks Paul. I will def check them out when new tire time comes

 

Check all the time. A bargain is timeless! You only have 25K to go on your runflats with rotation.

P

 

I have 16" runflats on both of my MINIs...Goodyear Eagles on my Cooper CVT and Dunlop 5000 DSSTs on my S. The Cooper has 30,000 miles on the runflats and, try as I might to wear them out, they just are not wearing. I've taken the Cooper to the Dragon 3 times and tracked it for 4 days last year with Phil Wicks schools. Last month, I took it to MD for MME and they still are not showing noticeable signs of wear. True, the ride is stiff and I keep them at 35 psi, but I installed the S springs on it when I switched my H-Sports to the S. Believe it or not, the ride seems a lot softer now. The S doesn't even have 2000 miles on it but I just tracked it last weekend. I notice that it rides much more smoothly than the Goodyears ever have, but then, perhaps the H-Sports are doing their thing, too.

I guess I mean to say that I like the runflats, whether they are Dunlops or Goodyears. When these Goodyears do wear out on my Cooper, I plan to install a used set of Dunlop 5000 DSSTs I got off eBay for $135 shipped. The best thing about the runflats is knowing that I do not need a spare unless something REALLY goes wrong, and for that, there is Flat-Fix or Slime and a compressor until I can get someplace to have a repair properly done.

The Cooper DOES have a spare tire, though. The S does not, but when I travel long distances, I plan to take my Cooper's spare, just in case. Better safe than sorry, right?

Jeff

 

give it some time... those tires are new and need some wear on them before they perform. I never heard ANYONE claim that runflats perform better than non-RF tires..
You are experiencing new tire squirm... it will get better...

 

Exactly. myzamboni and mikem53 are right.

I just got my Gs D3s a couple months ago and at first I was not all that impressed either. But now, they are totally the best. It is not even close. These are so much better than the runflats. Although I suppose it is possible, I can't imagine anyone who has had both, preferring the runflat.

It seems to see that most of the opinions of the people that agree on preferring the runflats are people that just have runflats. I have no problem with anyone that prefers them, but unless you have had both on the MINI then you can't really call that a comparison.

Big bonus for those of us in Northern States. For approximately the same cost as the runflats, I now have two sets of tires. Winter tires and GS D3s for summer. Now I feel that I am getting the best of all worlds. And tire wear isn't a huge problem because each set is only on 5 or 7 months per year.

 

Those goodyears will sit you up 9cm higher than you were before, so I don't think it's crazy to notice a difference like that, but you're not really comparing apples to apples with this. Runflats are going to have the stiffest sidewalls out there, but running a lower profile with standard tires would kinda balance out it's lack of stiffness and it sounds like that's what you'd enjoy . . . it's sh*t luck that we can't test drive tires before shelling out cash

I went the other way after ditching my Pirelli R/Fs (I didn't rotate either and they went QUICK) and got some 205/55/15s and don't mind the little bit of flex in favor of the light wheels and nice grip.

 

When I had my Dunlop Performance runflats on our 05 MCS the biggest issue I had with them was the lack of feedback when you were pushing them at their limit. I never felt like I was given any feel of when they were going to start to slide, whereas the BFG KDW2s that i switched them for give much better feedback on where that traction edge is. The Dunlop runflats were also absolutely scary at how they would follow the rain grooves on sections of I10 here in Phoenix, a near feeling of being on ice. I think thats what someone else described as tramlining, the tires wanting to follow any big variances in the road surface.

 

What you have inadvertently done is to increase the overall diameter of your wheel/tire combination in selecting the 215/45-17 to replace the original 205/45-17. The number 45 is the ratio of the tread width to sidewall height.

The 205 tire has a diameter of 24.26", the 215 has a diameter of 24.62". So you feelings of sitting taller are technically correct but it is only 0.18" (half of the difference in diameter as the hub is in the center of the wheel). The taller sidewall adds more flex softening the ride and muting the turn-in.

The increased diameter also gives the car ,effectively, taller gearing, slightly slowing acceleration and slightly increasing top speed and mpg.

The conventional way to increase tread width is to decrease the aspect ratio at the same time ie:205/45-17 to 215/40-17. This yields an overall diameter of 23.77" and decreases the height of the sidewall by 0.25". The shorter sidewall, given similar construction, delivers a sharper turn-in and firmer ride. The reduced diameter offers better acceleration, reduced mpg, and lower top speed.

I think that about covers it.

P.S. I have only used the runflats in the summer and really have no problems with them. I run the 16" Dunlop 5000 DSSTs and find them to be a thoroughly adaquate tire for the street. I got about 22,000 smiles out of the first set.

 

I have 1000 miles of "very spirited" driving on the new set of Exclaim 225x45x17 on my original lite wheels. What an improvement on the car; the overall ride, grip control and smoothness, ess noise, no comparison with RF's = no more RF. Also the bigger tire size gives a nice stance to the car without rubbing at all. A bit slower on the initial acceleration from standing but lots better at the mid range and high. I really like it!

 

I have 17" performance Dunlop runflats on my MCS and don't find the ride harsh, stiff or bumpy at all. I actually like how they ride as I have been in cars much worst rides with non-run flats. Plus I bought my MINI for its handling characteristics, not to ride like a boat.

I don't know if I will replace them with more runflats due to the cost, but as in a previous post, if I can pick up a set from a fellow NAM'er who wants a softer ride, then I may do that.

 

I have two sets of wheels and tires . . . one set is runflat and one set is not. I definitely go faster on the runflats -- because I have such a stong desire to wear them out. As they are all seasons, right now they are my winter tires. I'm just too cheap to toss them until I use them up.

I think a lot of satisfaction or lack of satisfaction has to do with the roads we drive every day. Unfortunately my local streets are very poorly maintained (I think it is part of the Santa Fe ambiance like adobe and flat roofs). I live a few hundred yards from the state capitol on a dirt road. For me the runflats are in the same figurative file folder as ex-wives (too cheap to get rid of her when I should have too ).