I've been having a hell of a time with aftermarket rims and tires I recently purchased and am looking for some advice

After having replaced 3 of the 4 run flats in just over a year, the tire pressure monitor light lit up again to let me know that my 4th tire had finally given out. At that point I decided I wasn't buying any more runflats and bought 4 new Cooper brand Z rated tires from a local discount tire retailer. Upon doing the work the shop informed me (and showed me)that all my rims were bent. They mounted and balanced everything and fixed the alignment. When I left the shop there was a very pronounced vibration in the steering wheel, which I assumed where the rims (it didn't have it before though).

So I bought new 17" rims (same size as my stock) at a place in the Bronx, and they were put on, afterwhich I assumed the vibration would dissappear. God forbid. At the time there was heavy traffic and I needed to get back to work. So I called the rim dealer and he told me to bring it back anytime. In the meantime I went back to the tire dealer (who is in much closer vicinity) and they told me that 3 of the 4 directional tires were on backwards, and take it back to the rim place.
I did that, they fixed it and.....still bad vibration. Turned around, brought it back. More mounting, balancing, yada yada yada, they tell me the rims are fine, its the tires. Having sat there watching over their shoulder the whole time and seeing a distinct wobble in the tires while on the balancing machine, I beleive them.

Get back to the tire place (more balancing, mounting, checking, yada yada yada) I can see a severe hop in the tires all the way around while they are spun with the car on the lift.
They agree to replace all the tires, but tell me the hub rings are not the right size and need to fit snug so that the wheel centers properly on the hub. Mine have about an 1/8" gap all the way around. The tire place tells me to get properly sized ones so everything is right and the tires won't wear oddly again (which is what they think happened the first time though I only drove them short distance for about a week).

The rim guy says the book lists the mini hub ring size at 5-6.1 which is what he gave me. He's put another set in the mail for me, though he says it won't make any difference and a small gap shouldn't be an issue.

So.......

What on god green earth do I do? Are the hub rings correct? Does a tiny gap matter? The car looks great and hasn't driven properly in like 2+weeks. I'm nearing fatigue stage with all of this. As with everything on this car, its proved a major hassle.

 

56.1mm. tiny gap should not matter. our wheels are lugcentric by
design.

you got either a poorly balanced wheel/tire, warped wheel, bad tire.

ive been running nothing but aftermarket wheels on my weekend cars
for many years... purchased from tirerack. never had vibration issues.

 

Thanks. I'll tell the tire guy to do the work. I've had very bad car karma with this ride. Not sure why.

 

Wait a minute. In the thread on hubcentric rings, the prevailing thought seems to be they should be tight. What up with that?

 

I run an aftermarket wheel shop in Richmond, VA, If the aftermarket wheels need hub centric rings that is normal. Factory Equipment wheels will be Hub-centric (IE.. fit snug on the hub) If hub rings are required then they should be TIGHT!! No gaps as this will certainly cause a vibration. Another way to alleviate the vibration at the hub is with an E-T style lug nut if the proper hub rings cannot be found, however not all aftermarket wheel can use the E-T style lug. In Richmond, our roads are terrible and I get alot of customers that bend their wheels on potholes or bridge sections when running low profile tires. If the vibration is in the tires, get different tires or take the wheels/tires to a shop that has a road force balancer. That balancer is the best way to get a great balance and the shop can generally give you a print out of the runout of each wheel and tire assembly.

 

they should be, on my kosei's i have to hammer in/out the metal ones I got from Tirerack. if there's play in the ring then the torqued wheel may be off by that much. i don't know if it would cause THAT much problem, but you never know

 

Thanks for the replys. Where can I go to get the proper rings? Does tirerack sell them seperately? They don't carry the brand rims I purchased and my understanding is they have to be sized to the wheel and hub.

 

Also, Occasionally we have not been able to find the exact size hub centric rings in which case a stop by a good machine shop may be necessary to make some, unfortunately this can be expensive. Or have the wheel center bore machined to an existing hub ring size.

 

The rim shop has that exact machine. I watched them do the test and the rims past. The tires came up as marginal.

 

So you have or are getting a new set of tires from the tires shop??, You need to find out what the hub bore of the wheels are. For example I sell a lot of 20" wheels (Richmond can be very bling-bling sometimes) Most of the 20" wheels we install have a 73MM hub bore but the cars are always different Today we installed 18" wheels on an 02 Jag x-type which hub bore is 63.8MM so it required a 73 to 63.8MM ring. So if your wheels are hypothetically 73mm then you would need hub rings that are 73 mm to 56.1 mm. They make a ton of different sizes of hub rings. If you cannot find the right ones send me an email and I will see what I can do for you. chris@tiremax.net

 

They will replace the tires with a new set free. I'll get the info about the wheel bore.

Thanks

 

the misconspection continues. every 3-4 months i have to repeat
myself. lol.

the centering rings are there to aid the installer to get the wheels in a
near-center position. the lugs are wat position the wheels correctly
at the end, not the centering rings. if your wheel can not center itself
without the centering rings, basically you got an unbalanced wheel..
it could be the weights, it could be that it's not straight, could be that
the lug taper hole on the wheel is not at the correct height, etc.

i can run my wheels without the rings and still come out vibration free
at expressway speeds. why? because these wheels are lugcentric by
design. (and being a car dork that i am, ive actually tried this on my
SSR wheels..bascially i don't use knock-off wheels in my collection).

 

Ok...but does that mean all wheels are lugcentric by design? I'm not running SSR's on my car.

 

you're still using the tapered lugs right? then yes, they are lugcentric.

there aren't too many 'real' hubcentric wheels out there any more.

 

The lugs came with the wheels. They aren't the originals, so I don't know.

 

Aftermarket wheels do not necessarily use the factory lugs, the factory lugs are not lug-centric. Lug holes are cut in a specific bolt pattern but not to a specific sized wheel stud. Which is why they make different types of lug nuts/studs for different types of cars and wheels. Examples: spline bulge, spline acorn, tuner, conical, E-T (or lug centric bulge), bulge, acorn, open. My 06 MCS has Conical seat lug studs not nuts.

 

There is no such thing as a lug-centric stud bolt. The mini is not lug-centric and the hub rings DO center the wheels not the stud bolts, get the right hub rings make sure the tires are not out of round and you will be fine. Anyone who says you can have a gap in the hub ring shouldn't be posting on this forum anyway.

 

lol too funny. welcome newb. (gap by the means of a loose fit is fine)
but you should still be able to run your car without rings if your wheels are
of high quality.

 

no doubt your wheels can be run without hub rings, but many wheels cannot. i helped a friend install aftermarket wheels without hub rings and he experienced extreme steering wheel shake at 55mph+. slapped on rings and it was perfectly smooth, there's no way someone can tell me all wheels are lug-centric.

people have all kind of work arounds for not using hub rings, slowly use a star pattern slowly (5 lug), lower the jack so the wheels rests are lightly on the ground etc. etc. but there's no reason NOT to get hub rings. honestly if you don't think they do anything, that's fine, at least its 1 variable out the window when trying to solve a problem

 

^^ yep, if you got them, use them by all means! i do.

when i torque up the 4 lugs, i first torque it by hand with just the
socket (no ratchet) tightening the opposing sides. then tighten
using my ratchet, again tightening the opposing sides.

then lower the car on the ground and do the final tightening. then
check torque with a torque wrench.

that's all it takes for my wheels. no vibrations ever. with or without
rings.

some of you guys are trying to make a wheel or tire that was born with
problems to spin correctly. that's the problem imho.

at one time, i even tried a set of pos ADR wheels on my Pro5 that i had
a while ago. no rings, no vibration. hope this info is useful.

over and out.

 

You don't know what you're talking about. You stick to your dent business and I'll stick to my wheel business.

 

I'm done with this thread, Sticky...if they cant get em right shoot me an email and I will see if I can find the proper rings.

 

Thanks. I talked to the guy today. The wheel bore is 73.1mm. I'm sure the new set of rings he's sending will have the same problem. Do you have 56.1/73.1 rings available?

 

I will check on Sat and post here for you.