to keep it short, this is what happened.

i finished my first set of pads, and changed them for ferodo ds2500, and i was told by an idiot acquaintence of mine to brake as hard as possible a few times to get rid of the first few "slippery" layers of pad compound. i was a n00b back then, and now i'm left with pads that aren't performing as they should.

can i fix this problem?

 

What do you mean by not performing as they should? Proper bedding does involve heating up the pads through hard braking, then letting them cool.

Your ferodo's need to be hotter than the OEM pads you are used to to really perform well. If you feel that your new pads don't work as well when cold, then that's normal.

 

well basically, i was told that the pedal feel should be much better when i installed ferodos. It doesn't. They don't feel up to the job. Not even as good as my stocks when the car was brand new.....

I stomped on them 6 or 7 times when i put them on, with about 30secs between each repetition....

i was told recently that you need to brake lightly for the first 200 miles....

 

proper bedding is critical for consistent performance and wear. Most manufacturers want you to do ten hard stops from 30mph, then wait 15 minutes to cool down (with parking brake off). Another 5-6 stops from 50mph, then another cool down and you are set. This scrubs the pad and also gets it 'aligned' with the rotor in a sense.

Keep in mind that all pads vary with their initial 'bite', but that has nothing to do with their ultimate stopping power. As stated above, you also may not be getting the pads hot enough during street use alone.

One other thought - what was the condition of the rotors when you put the pads on? If they weren't smooth and had ridges, you aren't getting teh most out of your pads. You might need to get them resurfaced to remove residue from the old pads.

 

well the ridges that were on it weren't deep, but when i run my hand over the disk, you can definately feel tiny indentations....they shouldn't be completely flat should they?

 

no....some ridges are normal. you need to do proper bed-in procedures....sounds to me like you aren't getting full use of the pad. Also...they will 'feel' different than stock. I'm running Hawk HPS on Brembo's on my Subaru and they feel totally different than other's I've used. I switched out rotors this weekend and the pedal felt 'soft' in comparison to what I had on before (2-pc rotors).

 

you might try bleeding your brakes if the pedal doesn't feel right

 

well i intend on doing so. flushing out OEM fluid, and replacing with RBF600 and steel braided lines

 

thanks by the way for your help guys

 

I have the DS 2500 pads, they perform exceptionally most of the time but cold bite is slightly less than stock, but were only talking a split second here and that first stop sign of the day. Rotor wear has been no worse than stock pads (actually less when compared to another MINI recently) and they have lasted over 50,000 miles without much city driving.

Pedal feel is different than pad bite as a function of feedback. Sometimes a bubble is trapped in the caliper and it takes retracting the pistons during the pad change or those hard stops you performed to release it. Dislodging bubbles or debris is one of the reasons it is recommended to open the bleeder when retracting the pads on an ABS equipped vehicle. The steel braided lines will change feel; new fluid may affect feel also especially it there were bubbles or moisture in the lines. If your car is not tracked I would suggest ATE 200 fluid because it is less hydroscopic than RBF 600 so it will need flushing less often.

Heat cycling has another function in regards to new rotors, the procedure will help harden the surface some, reducing rotor wear.

 

thanks for that reply.

I do intend on tracking the car, and i've only heard good reports about the RBF600.

After these rotors, i'll be buying aftermarket rotors and pads as well....

Hopefully all will be better once the lines and fluid are changed

 

Its really case by case or friction formula to friction formula. What beds in a Hawk product will destroy and EBC for instance. Allways consult the specific pad manufacturefor their procedure.

 

thus the modifier 'most'. I think it's implied to use the directions provided with the parts....perhaps I should have been more clear about that.

Alex - Has EBC changed their compound? I had a full set of EBC slotted rotors and GreenStuff pads for a CRX Si and after 5 months of just commuting, I was on to Brembo rotors and Akebono's as the EBC stuff self destructed (installed by a TR recommended shop), and the warranty was expired. Case of improper bedding, or just bum parts?

 

bum parts, i've heard nothing but crap reviews on EBC stuff, most of which tends to be tales of the disk just disintegrating/shattering

 

Really? I recently installed EBC green pads on a family member's '92 Miata & they're freaking awesome!

 

In response to the original post and avoid veering off to the EBC discussion I swapped to generic ceramoc pads that work wonderfully and flused the fluid at the same time (always the way I do brakes, figure while I'm down there might as well and brake fluid is fairly cheap) I did the slow run, soft brake a few times just to make sure everything was tight (and get to a place where I had some run off room just in case) then several hard barking manuvers from higher speeds each time until I was confident the brakes would function flawlessly at highway speeds, also by that point they were sufficently bedded. I did lose the feel of the intial bite, and had to press the pedal deeper before I got the respose of the OEM pads in the pedal, however when I reached that point the pads were working so well the ABS had already kicked in, on straight dry roads (and the deccelaration of the speedo was a good indicator as well). So I had to re-learn the feel of the brakes; and this is something I've confirmed with others is a normal experiance when changing brands or types of pads. So just bcause the pedal doesn't give the same response doesn't mean things aren't working right. I'd say do another bedding pocesses (if the maufacturer has instructions follow those); and see if you can get to a point where you feel confident in your brakes (as they are soemthing you need to trust!). I know with my current setup I've brake so hard the negative Gs and the seatbelt have hurt, and I suprised my self when I cut cut off the other day and I decellarated so quickly my ears popped.

Be safe and make sure you can trust your pads, your life depends on it.

 

i've only heard accounts of EBCs on MINIs

Thanks for that motor on, i'll get back to you all when my fluid is replaced and steel lines are in...

 

EBC had gone thru at least 1 friction formula change while we handled them. We havent handled them for a few years now.

Alex

 

Also, remember when changing brake fluid that the clutch slave is connected to the brake system and you should flush/bleed the clutch slave.

 

really? i've never heard that before........

 

I had not heard about the clutch being connected to the brake system until I upgraded to a TCE/Wilwood BBK. I drained and replaced all the fluid and had a spongy pedal after bleeding the brakes. I than bled the clutch and that solved the problem. Here is a NAM link with instructions on bleeding the brakes and clutch. Remember to compress the clutch pedal before bleeding.

https://www.northamericanmotoring.co...leeding+clutch

 

thanks very much for that, but the question is, does bmw do this for you when doing a brake bleed?

 

I believe they share the reservoir but I've never found the need to bleed it on a kit install personally. And I've done half a dozen with no ill effect. Not that it's a bad idea or such but I have not done this.

Bleeding and flushing with the reservoir kept topped up should pose no problems to the cluth. Granted if you want to purge ALL the fluid you may need to do a clutch line as well. For the most part however simply doing the calipers should be sufficient. Your BP may be slightly lower as a result of the mix of a small amount of fluid from cluth line I suppose. I'll prefer to leave well enough alone after reading the link...!

 

When you say you had a spongy pedal, did you have a spongy clutch pedal, or spongy brake pedal.....

 

I had a spongy brake pedal. I had left my brake lines disconnected for a few days while I dealt with some BBK installation problems so all the fluid drained out. Once I replenished the fluid and bleed the brakes I needed to also bleed the clutch to get out all air in the lines. As Todd states, bleeding the clutch is not necessary unless you drain all the fluid. However, if you plan to change all the fluid it would be best to also get the old fluid out of the clutch lines and it is not that difficult.