All good info.
And I also pulled up data on the kits and the front 11.75 kit shifts bias up FRONT by only about 3% depend upon the pad used now or in the past. You didn't specify front or rear lock up but I just don't see any rear lock and a modulating / workable front change that in now way should be way over powering. If it were 10-15% more front I'd be worried but it's not.

 

Thanks Txwerks and ToddTCE! Ya gotta love NAM for
this kind of thing.

 

Any suggestions here would be greatly appreciated...

Well, I took the fuses out of my car that control ABS & DSC
-ABS and DSC lights are now showing off/failure on the instruments.

But, I still get the "ABS like" sound under hard braking. I can now lock up the
wheels but before they get to locking up I get a juttttter sound and feel
in the peddle very similar to ABS. I checked the torque on the caliper
mounts and everything seems in spec.

Something else loose? Ideas?

Thanks

 

Ok ok, since this is my "gripe about my Wilwoods" thread... I think I might have a set of non BP-XX pads. I've noticed that they start to work really good when they're HOT but are still just, eh when cold. They also sqeel like a pig on speed at lower speed stops. Is the compound stated on the pad?.. my box is in a storage locker in NY.

Hm, other than that... I bled them with a one man bleeder and it didn't help so I don't suppose I have air in them. I'm thinking about switching out all the brake fluid to something better. What do you guys suggest? Anything else to help my pedal feel? Stainless lines in the rear?

Overall though, I've got to say I'm pretty happy with them despite not being what I was expecting. Just the fade resistance is worth it. I can tell that they do stop faster too, it just feels like more work than it should.

 

comments inserted

 

Alright sounds good. I think I just had it in my head that the pedal feel would be drastic. Thanks for all your help, Todd.

 

UPDATE and JCW/Wilwood 11.75" comparison.

I got a set of poly B pads and SS front/rear brake lines from
TCE Todd. I did a really good brake bleeding /flushing with
Super Blue fluid.

Now my breaks are what I expected and the seeming ABS problem
is gone. My Wilwoods with the Poly B pads are WAY better than the JCW's with JCW pads. They stop hard and NOW. I have a little bit of rotor friction noise during slow stops but no harsh squeeling just little bits of squeel some times and It's not at all annoying or attention getting at stop lights. The
Wilwoods stop so much better I'm having to re-adjust my heal toe downshift technique to apply a much lighter brake touch. I can't wait to
get on Laguna Seca at the end of the month!

I think my deal was I wasn't used to the Wilwood feel and I think the
JCW brakes with JCW pads stop slightly better than Wilwoods with
the BP-10 pads (though the cast iron JCWs get very heat soaked if you
run hard on the track)

I put all the JCW brake stuff in the box the Wilwoods came in and they're
substantially heavier. In fact I was worried about the bottom blowing
out of the box when I lifted it and this was not at all a worry
when the box arrived with the Wilwood setup.

 

B pads rawk!

 

I'd caution against street use of Poly B pads. They'll work but you'll chew up rotors pretty quickly. But I stock replacements....

 

This was a very helpful thread having just had the 11.75 installed. Before it was installed I was driving a car with a huge StopTech kit on it which stopped violently NOW on the street in every situation.

I expected firmer pedal feel, but I think I need to really test these things before I make any judgement. I should also get some more hardcore bedding done, too.

So for the 11.75, I have the bp-20 for track use. Are people liking the poly-b better? Should I run the 20s before hitting the track next month?

mb

 

This is actually a rather easy one to answer and explain.

*Aside from install issues; air in the system (nobody tried to bleed the 'lower' bleeders or introdued air in the mc while done etc. etc. I'm always a fan of a quick re-bleed after 100mi or so to remove any cling-ons.

The Wilwood kits have a larger piston area than the Stoptechs or the TCE kits. That means greater disaplacement and travel under you foot. While I might not consider it spongey, it will never have the feeling of the larger kits. But why or why not? It's piston area balances. With the smaller rotor you'll require far more clamping force to obtain the desired rotor torque. With the larger kits you simpliy have far more leverage to work from thus require less clamping. Can you change this? Yes you can- in two ways. You can either use smaller pistons or a larger mc. Smaller pistons however require more pressure and create greater stress. A larger bore mc will be the better choice if you can find one. The bigger bore will require you push harder and will displace more fluid to balance out the caliper. Down side here is that a reduced output pressure from the mc for the fronts also effects the rears. Believe it or not, right now you're really sitting in a pretty good balance of bias and torque for the kit specs. It just doesn't have the rock feel.

As for pads, put in the 20s now, why wait? They won't be much different at lower temps but when heated will be superior to the 10s. But for the track day you may or may not need to move to the B compound. Just depends on how hard you drive. Will pedal "feel" change with the B pads? To some degree yes; travel won't firm up all that much but the resultant tq will make for a more desired response you don't have now.

 

Thanks, Todd. Is my kit not a "TCE" kit even though I bought it from you?

Do I need to bed in the pads before I hit the track, ie, if I buy poly b's or switch to the bp-20's, should I install them well before the first lap?

And you answer your question, "As for pads, put in the 20s now, why wait?" Because that's what you recommended to me when I bought the kit!

I have the 10s on now, and two sets of 20s waiting. Shall I order up some b's, too?

mb

edit - oh, and by the way, I did some serious bedding with them today (50,60,70-0) until they smoked, and they work quite impressively.

 

Inserted below.

 

My Pad Experiences...

BBK is TCE 11.75 Race with the 12.2 Slotted rotors.

Came with BP-10 for street, BP-20 for track.

For the street the BP-10 are great. Good stopping anytime no issues at all.

For the track the BP-20's didn't cut it for me. Destroyed a set in 6 on track sessions at Road Atlanta. Never did feel all the comfortable with them. Called Todd @ TCE and he recommended the Poly-B's. Also called Dr Mike @ TSW as I know he is hard on brakes. He also recommended the Poly-B's or Raybestos ST-43's. Since I knew where to the Poly B's called Todd back and ordered a set. Since there are very few track days scheduled in TX for August due to the heat had to wait till mid-Sept to try them out. In the mean time TSW introduced their BBK. I live right by TSW and saw these first hand. I decided to get them and put the TCE kit up for sale on NAM. Todd chimed in and very generously offered a send the buyer a set of SS lines for the rears. Sold the BBK with the priviso that I was not going cash the check or ship until the TSW BBK was installed. As we all know with mods timing never works the way we want. I could not hook up with TSW to have the BBK installed before my next track date so I installed Poly B's and off I went. WOW, these are BRAKES now. Picking the proper pad made all the difference in the world. A full weekend with 8 sessions on track and no issues, didn't even use 1/2 the pad. Feel great, can brake deep, no fade. The Poly-B's work for me at my current level. Called the buyer of my BBK and explained the situation, they were cool with it, shredded their check. TSW was also cool with me not getting their BBK, they understand I didn't need at this time. Did another 7 sessions this weekend with the same pads and still have enough pad left for 2 maybe 3 sessions. Need to call Todd on Monday and get another set of Poly-B's for next weekends DE. Still want to try the Raybestos ST-43 and see how they are.

Carbotech was at local BMW-CCA DE and of course they think they have the pad I need. I'd rather stick with the poly-B's from Todd and try the ST-43. Cost is a factor, Carbotech was more then 2X the cost the others and they state I'd one set for track and one for street. Thats getting into some bucks for a consumable.

As it stands now the BBK has about 12k street miles and 3 full DE weekends. Rotors are starting to show signs its time to order replacements. The slots are getting very shallow. Street use BP-10's have more then 3/4 pad material left.

 

Excellent info, gnatster, thank you very much. Todd, you might (will) be getting a call in the next few days. I like options. I have one more track day this season, and while I'm an intermediate driver, the stock brakes were one of my main limiting factors last time out (besides myself). So I'll get some poly-b's and try them as well as the 20s.

mb

 

similar experience to gnatster: BP-20's stopped the car ok, but wouldn't last for me. five sessions at sebring and they were done. i brake late and hard. i have TCE's FSL calipers. thw new poly h's are available for this caliper. i've done two weekends w/ them and still have compound remaining. rotor wear doesn't seem much worse than w/ BP-20's. i run Porterfield R4 on the rear. i love my brakes, but make the P-cars in front of me nervous. this usually leads to a quick point-by.

 

The ST-43 is available from Porterfield - you can call them and order directly. Be certain that they understand what calipers you have (Wilwood 11.75" kit => Dynapro calipers, I believe).

I found the ST-43 and the Poly B to be the same - they are both excellent pads.

 

could it possibly be because of the extra cylinder for the calipers. cause u r using the same pump as the stock, but when u have extra cylinder to apply pressure to, the pedal feel and pressure will feel different?

but i ain't no expert, so don't count on my words. i'm sure todd can answer ur question in much better words and logic.