I believe you should do your homerwork before you decide on solutions for me and all the owners of 07/06 and above production MINI's. If you did ,you would know a large number of aftermarket wheels are drilled like the MINI's which will accept 12 and 14mm lugs or studs. The issue is all the new production is 14mm. Maybe I should just go out and put old style hubs on too. Maybe I also wouldn't be in this situation if the brake kit I got would fit my car without spacers would I. Yes the 14 to 12 is a stop gap. But if your making the stud to fit on one end (the hub) why wouldn't you do the other end 14 x 1.25. If your so concerned why MINI would make such a change ask them not me. Yes I know it also brings up the situation of the stud nut not being 14, but I guess that has to be addressed also.

 

I see two options:

1. Swap the hubs. A lot of work but it could be done assuming the bearings are the same on both cars.

2. Order any brake kit you purchase to accept the M14 studs. So far...it's proved a very easy thing to change. Will add a few bucks to the cost but myself, Detroit Tuned, Stoptech and a few others should have no problem with it. Buying on line via the classic "click and order" you'll probably hit a snag. Deal with the supplier directly.

 

I'm not trying to dictate anyone's choices, that's why I said that the M14->M12 conversion was an attractive option for **some of us** with the M14 2006 models. What if a particular wheel we like never becomes available with bolt holes suitable for M14 bolts/studs? We can have them drilled out, but if you have that professionally done to more than one set of wheels, you've already exceeded the likely cost of the conversion kit.

Likewise, even though all MINI production is moving toward M14 bolts, no one's said for certain yet whether brake components for the R56 will be backwards-compatible with the current-gen cars. It won't do me any good if some spiffy new slotted rotors with 14mm holes for the R56 can't be used on my car. Likewise, it's possible that the big-brake kits that come out for the R56 won't work on a current-gen MINI, even one with M14 studs.

 

Thanks for the reply. It sounds like option #1 will cost me more, time-wise than the conversion studs will cost me dollar-wise. Option #2 is reassuring when it comes to brake kits, but doesn't help with the fact that the wheels I want won't fit over M14 studs without having them drilled out.

Put me on the list for the conversion studs when they become available.

 

Let's set one thing straight first... From our resident PhD in mechanical engineering (and now, rocket engineer/scientist (literally)) - as far as centering rings and lug bolts/studs goes:

"Hub centering rings are not designed to carry the load. In fact, the bolts are also not supposed to carry the load. When they do, they shear off!

Unbelievable as it may sound, the interface between the wheel and the hub carries the load. That's right, the vertical planes which contact each other transfer all shear loads by static friction. The source of the static friction is the compression imparted by the fasteners (lug bolts or studs). Tensile loads are taken directly by reducing the spring force stored in the flange compression, that is, the loads tend to reduce the compression between the flanges that is set up by the bolts. Since the bolts have a far smaller cross-sectional area than the flange faces (even collectively), they have a much smaller spring constant, so the force they contribute to the joint varies far less per unit distance than the flange compression. In other words, the forces due to lug tightening stay fairly constant as the load varies across the flanges. This is why your wheels don't fall off around a corner.

However, it IS the reason why some folks know someone whose wheels fell off after they lubricated the studs or bolt holes. If a little bit of lubricant gets between the wheel and the hub, then the friction between the two goes down, sometimes a LOT. In that case, the bolts cannot set up enough static friction between them, and the joint can slip, resulting in a high-powered tricycle adventure. Remember to keep the threads oiled and the flanges clean!

I can go on and on about flange dynamics, but I'll stop short of the full monty. The point is, there's a lot more to the basic "four lugs and a wheel" interface than meets the eye, and nearly everyone misunderstands how it all works. This is why a thin layer of grime can cause a wheel to shear off, or why a wheel that is properly centered (by luck or by a really good cone lug fit) doesn't need centering rings."

In any event, Dr. Mike's finished the CAD drawings of our new conversion studs and they're on the way to our supplier... we should have them in hand in 4-6 weeks.

Is an M14 bolt or stud "stronger" than an M12? Of course. Does it matter? Not really... It's really NOT the strength of the studs or bolts that matters. That being said, we'll still be using great materials and they'll be made right here in the USA - SAE spec'd material with properly rolled threads.

Anyhoo, my take on why BMW/MINI switched to M14x1.25? Only OEM wheels will work with them... And therefore, they sell more OEM wheels. I can tell you it was NOT for "strength" because it doesn't make any sense...

We're making two versions of the studs - M14/M12 conversion studs for those that want aftermarket wheels, BBK's or rotors. And, a STRAIGHT M14 stud, but converting from the M14x1.25 to M14x1.5 thread pitch on the wheel side. This will allow you to select from a myriad of options on lugnuts, since M14x1.5 is a normal size (for BIG SUV's like Suburbans).

In all honesty, there have been VERY few automobiles in the history of automobiles that have chosen M14x1.25 bolts for ANYTHING (and especially for lug bolts).

 

I can vouch that hubs are NOT cheap... The OEM rears are some $110 a pop!

 

Take a pill dude. Sheese.

If you want to wait for the market to catch up with parts that fit I have no problem with that what so ever. The fact remains; there are a lot of parts on the market now that may or may not ever fit your late model MINI if it were not for the forethought of some of us trying our best to make it happen for you. If you prefer M14 parts, that's perfectly fine with me. As I've said; "we can do that too".

 

inserted comment

 

Oh, I didn't figure the hubs would be cheap. The only reason I was considering it was that my wife's car has the M12 bolts and mine has the M14 bolts, but they're identical otherwise (both 2006 'S' cabrios). If I could have easily swapped her parts for mine **without having to buy any new parts**, it would have been an option, but it sounds like the hassle wouldn't be worth it.

 

To be honest, it's not a total beating - but, it's also probably not worth spending an entire Saturday doing!

 

txwerks & toddtce

I believe you may have thought my comments were directed at you. The fact is they were not. My comments were for other NAM members basically trying to tell me what I want. I'm glad to see someone is working on a solution to the problem. Yes 1.5 mm thread size is one of the most common sizes used in the automotive industry today. They maybe the answer down the road. Thanks for your explanation on studs, hub rings and weight bearing on hub and wheel. I'm a little amazed that you saw a need to tell me about your educational credentials. Yes it's great to see you have an engineer helping you develope your products. It just seemed you were talking down to me because you may think I don't have a degree or a Ph.D. I'm sorry I only have a degree in Bus. Mgt. from the University of Buffalo and a degree from the General Motors School of Parts and Service Mgt. I've been the the automotive industry for 35 plus years but I don't see a need for letting everyone know. I just enjoy my car and the products all the vendors produce for the MINI community. I'm just your average Joe car guy looking for help with a problem that we have with our cars.

Thanks for your help in trying to solve the 14mm problem and continued success in product developement and in your business endeavors.

 

I didn't mean for that to sound like I was talking down to anyone - I was just sharing information from our resident engineering geek about how lug bolts/studs or centering rings don't carry load - and the 12mm v 14mm debate about strength is silly.

I mentioned his credentials only because in the world of academia (where he works), his degree IS important and carries weight. It also lets people here know that he knows his stuff...

Besides that, he likes being called 'Dr. Mike' - you know, it's his tuner handle, like Dr. Fuh or Dr. Charles. It's kind of our way of poking fun at him, too - he didn't care for Mr. Big Head but he tolerates Dr. Mike.

 

Thanks for your reply.
Let us know when when the studs are in. I need a set when they are available. Thank you. Larry

 

Thanks all for the thread, dialog, and initiative. I've been hoping the aftermarket will have appropriate options for me when I want to upgrade the brake system on my GP.

 

A must if you are taking it to the track.

 

guys.....I consider myself fairly technical, but I'm lost here....perhaps I missed something in the discussion. We own an '05 MCSc that we've done a stud conversion on (running hubcentric Prodrive P1's with 12x1.5 McGard SplineDrives). We also have an '06 MCS that's got Enkei MM2's (previously BBS RG-F's) on the factory bolts. I've got Volk TE37's on the way and had planned on moving to the stud/SplineDrive conversion once they arrived.

Is there a benefit or necessity for me to switch to a 14mm solution?

 

Do the same stud conversion you did on the 05. If you switch to the 14mm you will only be able to run OEM wheels.

 

Only if your 06 has the 14mm lugs on it now. Then you'll need the 14 to 12 mm conversion as this the only kit that will be available at this time. Some aftermarket wheels will fit 12 & 14mm lugs. My SSR's won't as they are drilled for 12mm lugs or studs.
Early production 06 cars have 12mm lugs.

 

my car was built in July '06, so chances are it's 14mm, but maybe not since both the Enkei's and BBS had no problems with them (at least using a thinwall socket to install on the Enkei). So, moot point if I plan to swap to a stud conversion?

 

Got an ETA of 4 weeks... Just in time to get here and ship out before track season starts! Also, they should be in hand in time to make our January promotion that's in the NAM calendar...

 

Great news. That means us northern guys can get our car ready while they are in storage. Well thats for those of us who don't drive in the winter.

Thanks for the update.

 

You are right on the fence because that is when they switched. I bet that since your aftermarket rims fit you have 12mm. You need to remove one and find out if you have 12 or 14mm. Then you need to test your Volk TE37's. Assuming they fit you have options.

If you have 12mm you can leave it alone because you validated the rims fit. But, because you already showed interest in going to the studs you should do the same conversion you did on the 05.

If you have 14mm (and your rims fit, which would be weird because this entire thread started when aftermarket rims didn't fit 14mm) you can go to the 14mm to 12mm stud (in 4 weeks when they are made). You rims will obviously still fit and you don't have rotor issues. Then again, you can go to a 14mm stud if everything fits and assume everyone is going to start making rims and rotors in this size.

 

Looking forward to the PM or post when they're avaialable...I'm ready to pre-order now if you have pricing locked in.

 

+1

 

We'll have M14/M12 conversion studs AND straight M14 studs in hand in 3-4 weeks... Made in the USA, properly rolled threads, highest quality materials...

Stud kits will ship with a vial of Loctite. Install will be via a 6mm allen head that's broach cut into the end. There will also be a 3mm bullet nose on the end to help prevent cross-threading of lugnuts. Finish is black on the studs...

The M14/M12 studs feature an M14x1.25 threaded end for the hub, a nice shoulder to keep them snug (before the knurl) and then neck down to M12x1.5.

The M14 straight studs feature an M14x1.25 threaded end for the hub, a knurl, and then an M14x1.5 on the outside - converting from 1.25 to 1.5 will allow you to choose from a bunch of different open-ended lug nuts!

For the M12x1.5 setup, we'll also offer super lightweight, tuner style, open ended, racing lug nuts. These are flippin' beautiful. We're checking to see if the supplier would like to make us some in M14x1.5, too. Finish will be black...